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Re: hgroup and ARIA outline in ISSUE-129 [Was: SSUE-129: replace or modify the ARIA section of the HTML5 spec - chnage proposal and replacement spec text]

From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:34:37 +0000
Message-ID: <AANLkTinu36QoH0jXKbbvAgqboizcGayGVhBT_EsW3NdE@mail.gmail.com>
To: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>, "Michael(tm) Smith" <mike@w3.org>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Steve Faulkner
<faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not proposing that hgroup is ignored, I am suggesting that in the
> context of a user of AT moving through page content, as against accessing
> and naviagting via a page outline, the presence of the hgroup as a heading
> does not make sense.

These are certainly different scenarios, but ARIA/accessibility API
mappings might be used for both these scenarios.

For example, a screen reader might list all the items in the
accessibility tree with "heading" roles, allowing the user to jump to
regions. If we map subtitles to headings then AT will not be able to
distinguish subtitles from headings when building such a list.

> could you provide details of how your example should be conveyed to an AT
> user if they are using the cursor keys to move through content as against
> navigating via an outline?
>
> <h1>A problem solved</h1>
> <h2>Introduction</h2>
> <p>Text for introduction section goes here</p>
> <hgroup>
>  <h3>Analysis</h3>
>  <h2>The problem</h2>
>  <h2>A mathematical model</h2>
> </hgroup>
> <p>Text for problem section goes here</p>
> <h2>Solution</h2>
> <p>Text for problem section goes here.</p>

One possible verbose aural presentation would be as follows:

  New region
  Heading level 1 A problem solved
  New region
  Heading level 2 Introduction
  New region
  Text for introduction section goes here.
  New region
  Subtitle Analysis
  Heading level 2 The problem
  Subtitle A mathematical model
  Text for problem section goes here.
  New region
  Heading level 2 Solution
  Text for problem section goes here.

A less verbose presentation might be:

  Heading level 1 A problem solved
  Heading level 2 Introduction
  Text for introduction section goes here.
  Analysis
  Heading level 2 The problem
  A mathematical model
  Text for problem section goes here.
  Heading level 2 Solution
  Text for problem section goes here.

I think the following would also be okay:

  Heading level 1 A problem solved
  Heading level 2 Introduction
  Text for introduction section goes here.
  Heading level 2
  Analysis
  The problem
  A mathematical model
  Text for problem section goes here.
  Heading level 2 Solution
  Text for problem section goes here.

A disadvantage of this style is that if the user later used a heading
list accurately reflecting the document semantics defined by HTML5,
they might find it harder to locate the "hgroup" heading "The problem"
if they are listening for "Analysis".

I don't think this presentational shorthand, where subtitles are
undistinguished, should be pushed right down to the API mapping level
as the Change Proposal currently suggests.

> Also I  thought that the oultine would be processed by the browser rathert
> han handing it off to AT fior processing.

The HTML5 outline algorithm yields an outline of the document structure.

It can be used by any user agent that wants to present an outline of
the document structure.

It makes sense to me that its outline of document structure would
match the outline implied by ARIA "region", "heading", and
"aria-level" mappings.

If ATs build a different outline of the document structure based on
the accessibility API mapping, then the mapping has produced a
misrepresentation.

--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Sunday, 28 November 2010 12:35:11 UTC

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