[minutes] 20100325 HTML teleconference

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                      HTML Weekly Teleconference

25 Mar 2010


          Cynthia_Shelly, Sam, RobEnnals, Radhika_Roy, Michael_Cooper,
          dsinger, +1.218.340.aabb, Plh, Mike, +1.206.922.aacc,
          adrianba, Laura, +1.206.850.aadd, Eliot_Graff, Janina, paulc,
          [Microsoft], cardona507




     * [2]Topics
         1. [3]Issues Pending Review
         2. [4]ACTION items due by Thu Mar 25
         3. [5]WG Decision Policy
         4. [6]Call For Consensus that close by Mar 25
         5. [7]Call for Proposals that close by Thu Mar 25
         6. [8]Items that close next week
         7. [9]New Calls for Proposals/Consensus this Week
         8. [10]Items that are due next week
         9. [11]New Issues This Week
        10. [12]Updates from AC and Tag meeting
        11. [13]Task Force Status Reports - Testing
        12. [14]Task Force Status Reports
        13. [15]Next meeting
     * [16]Summary of Action Items

1. Issues Pending Review

   Sam: We have agreement to closed this based on the change being

2. ACTION items due by Thu Mar 25

   Sam: Deferred to task force discussions.

3. WG Decision Policy

   Sam: Maciej has a meeting conflict. He has posted a new draft
   ... will be discussed later today

4. Call For Consensus that close by Mar 25

   Sam: none

5. Call for Proposals that close by Thu Mar 25

   Sam: Issue 31, 80, 32 defer to HTML a11y discussion
   ... Issue 41, we have 5 proposals

   Rob: my preferred one is the last one

   Sam: Issue-88, no counter proposal received. some twists are being
   discussed on the mailing list. any discussion on it?

Items that close next week

   Sam: none

New Calls for Proposals/Consensus this Week

   Sam: Issue-78 is up there now.
   ... discussion?

Items that are due next week

   Sam: several items due next week

   <rubys> a) ISSUE-4 html-versioning b) ISSUE-84 legacy-doctypes c)
   ISSUE-81 representation-vs-resource d) ISSUE-89 idioms e) ISSUE-90
   figure f) ISSUE-91 aside g) ISSUE-92 cleanuptable h) ISSUE-93
   details i) ISSUE-94 webcoresplit j) ISSUE-95 hidden k) ISSUE-96
   progress l) ISSUE-97 meter m) ISSUE-100 srcdoc

10. New Issues This Week

   Sam: issue-104 is new

11. Updates from AC and Tag meeting

   Sam: W3C had a survey, results were in the no category (79%). so
   based on that, all use cases, except for forking, will be addressed.
   ... t see much comments so far

   plh: we're going on a draft for the license, as fast as we can. This
   is a followup to ACTION-29.

   <paulc> apologies for being late.

   Sam: TAG meeting. TAG requested a document to specify how one
   createa polyglot document (documents that can served as text/html or
   application/xhtml+xml and work well)
   ... I do that on my website

   Rob: I do that as well

   Paul: should we look for a volunteer?

   Sam: I'd love to contribute
   ... I'll work with the co-chairs on the response to the TAG request

   <scribe> ACTION: Sam to respond to the TAG request on polyglot
   documents [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Respond to the TAG request on
   polyglot documents [on Sam Ruby - due 2010-04-01].

   Sam: the TAG review may produce comments on ISSUE 41 and discussion
   around them

   Paul: at first, a minority of TAG members suggested we just deal
   with the proposals and let the TAG see the results. I suggest
   instead that the TAG should look at the proposals and tell us if any
   of them meet their principles.
   ... so that the TAG describe what success might mean on ISSUE 41

Task Force Status Reports - Testing

12. Task Force Status Reports

   Kris: met again this week. spent time on test submission, feedback,
   and approval.

   <krisk> Meetings notes

     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2010Mar/0016.html

   <pimpbot> Title: [miniutes] HTML Testing Task Force Conf Call Agenda
   3/23/2010 from Kris Krueger on 2010-03-25
   (public-html-testsuite@w3.org from March 2010) (at lists.w3.org)

   Kris: I'd like to come back to the Working Group next time to make
   sure we're going in the right direction

   <paulc> Back on TAG item - the document we referenced in Nov 2009 is
   at [19]http://www.la-grange.net/2009/07/05/html5-xhtml5/

     [19] http://www.la-grange.net/2009/07/05/html5-xhtml5/

   <pimpbot> Title: HTML 5 and XHTML 5 - one vocabulary, two
   serializations (at www.la-grange.net)

   Kris: so if you have opinions or feedback, please look at our wiki
   ... e review a couple of tests and will move them into the approved
   ... so first tests approved for HTML5!

   <paulc> TAG joint meeting minutes:

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2009/11/05-html-wg-minutes.html#item02

   <pimpbot> Title: HTML WG face-to-face in Santa Clara -- 05 Nov 2009
   (at www.w3.org)

   Kris: other than that, list is picking up slightly this month...

   Sam: the document pointed by Paul describes how to generate
   HTML/XHTML from a DOM tree, while we're interested in producing a

   Janina: no meeting this for the a11y task force. a large majority of
   participants disappeared in the CSUN conference.
   ... we've been taking up ARIA mapping for HTML
   ... there is a long way to go for it still. looked at 1/8 or 1/4 of
   ... not before June or July for ARIA mappings
   ... mapping to accessibility APIs
   ... that's a big job

   Cynthia: aren't we going to have separate meetings soon?

   Janina: for ARIA mappings yes

   Cynthia: I think that ARIA mappings and accessibility APIs mapping
   should be discussed at the same time. there are the same thing.

   Janina: then I'm confused...

   Cynthia: they'll probably two separate documents but developed in

   Janina: is summer 2010 the right timeline?

   Cynthia: yes
   ... so, we're going to start working on a11y APIs mapping after CSUN

   Paul: which tracker issues are we talking about?

   Mike: that might be the only issue/action that can map to the work
   at the moment. might need to reframe it

   <rubys> action-138?

   <trackbot> ACTION-138 -- Steve Faulkner to produce an ARIA matrix
   based on Henri's work -- due 2010-03-25 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [21]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138

     [21] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/138

   Cynthia: "HTML elements mapping to ARIA and A11y APIs" would be a
   better title for ACTION-138

   Paul: we need an issue for it, otherwise it won't block us from
   moving to LC

   Mike: at this point, it's not contentious, but we're waiting on a

   Cynthia: there is a bug on the anchor

   Mike: maybe we should raise bugs at the element level indeed

   Cynthia: can we make an issue for it?

   Paul: the WG will need to have consensus on getting to LC.
   ... sometimes, LC aren't feature complete indeed. so it would be
   best if we were feature complete and stable but that's a decision
   for the WG.

   Cynthia: I see that as a feature rather than a bug
   ... it hasn't yet been done

   Paul: but we don't know if the group thinks the feature is mandatory
   or not

   <Laura> ARIA issues

   <Laura> [22]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/14

     [22] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/14

   <Laura> [23]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35

     [23] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/35

   <Laura> [24]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/51

     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/51

   <Laura> [25]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

     [25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/85

   Sam: we should have a bug for it, with a NEEDSMOREINFO status

   <scribe> ACTION: Cynthia to open a bug about HTML elements mapping
   to ARIA and A11y APIs [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-177 - Open a bug about HTML elements
   mapping to ARIA and A11y APIs [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2010-04-01].


     [27] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Process_to_submit_HTML_spec_bugs

   <pimpbot> Title: Process to submit HTML spec bugs - HTML
   accessibility task force Wiki (at www.w3.org)

   <rubys> [28]http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-wg-minutes.html

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2010/03/11-html-wg-minutes.html

   Sam: [going through the dates for the issues]

   <Laura> [29]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Minutes

     [29] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Minutes

   Sam: [discussing ISSUE 9 timeline]

   Janina: we need to talk about this at the f2f. no sooner than
   sometimes in May.
   ... the f2f is in April. it would be completed no sooner than May


     [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0426.html

   Mike: I posted a preliminary message, asking for Dick to reply about
   the API, because he has a point of disagreement. didn't get a reply
   from him yet
   ... so I'm going to call for consensus on the API
   ... it's part of ISSUE 9
   ... text association piece still needs to be done
   ... but we can move the API discussion into the Working Group by
   next week

   Sam: so text association wouldn't be sooner than May?

   Mike: yes, unless there is new information, we're going to move
   forward with the API

   Dave: CSS media queries for video and audio selections. I posted an
   ... Rich might have an idea as well

   <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- how accessibility works for <video> is unclear
   -- RAISED

   <trackbot> [31]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9

     [31] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/9

   plh: is it part of ISSUE 9?

   Dave: yes
   ... this is about the media query feature on the source element to
   select the proper element
   ... based on a11y needs
   ... we need the details worked out
   ... but we'll be ready by May
   ... we might not need to change the HTML spec as such. probably a
   change in media queries

   Sam: ISSUE-30: long desc. target is April 22

   Janina: still good

   Sam: ISSUE-31, missing alt. target is April 22.

   Janina: the point of 22 is if we make good progress at the f2f,
   we'll make it. if we don't, we'll need to update the deadline.

   Paul: so, what's the deadline for doing the work?

   Janina: I'd like to look at it at the f2f
   ... we'll have a better idea after the f2f on how long it will take

   Sam: ISSUE-32. No earlier than April 29.

   Janina: yes

   Sam: ISSUE-66?

   Janina: new proposals have been put forward, it's now a live issue

   Sam: yes

   Janina: we'll need to look at the new proposals and comment on them

   <mjs> (hi everyone; I'm busy with greeting arrivals to the TC-39
   meeting but if my input is needed on anything I can comment on IRC,
   just ping me)

   Sam: ISSUE-74. deadline for remaining parts?

   <RobEnnals> I need to drop off now...

   Janina: the 1/3 to 1/2 part can be moved into the HTML WG now.
   ... for the remainer, it will take an other week to two.
   ... safest is April 15
   ... it's not controversial but essential
   ... whether it's 1/3 or 1/2, depends on the proposal. the proposal
   wasn't complete yet, but might not be esssential.
   ... I don't know if Charles worked on it

   Sam: ISSUE-80, April 22

   Janina: yes, the deadline is still correct

   <janina> Charles is at CSUN in San Diego

   <pimpbot> bugmail: [Bug 9322] New: dsdfs fe efefaafd asd

     [32] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2010Mar/1039.html

   Sam: ISSUE-85... new date?

   Cynthia: no particular action taken at this point. it's part of the
   bigger work item.

   Sam: should we close ISSUE-85 then?
   ... last I heard was an update on March 25

   Cynthia: we did talk about it. it sounds like I need to look at
   Steve's proposal.
   ... we'll give a report in one week


     [33] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ARIAonanchor

   <pimpbot> Title: ChangeProposals/ARIAonanchor - HTML WG Wiki (at

   Janina: I'll add it to the a11y tf agenda

Next meeting

   Sam: keep in mind the time change
   ... Paul will chair next week


Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Cynthia to open a bug about HTML elements mapping to
   ARIA and A11y APIs [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: Sam to respond to the TAG request on polyglot
   documents [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

Received on Tuesday, 30 March 2010 18:29:32 UTC