- From: Mark Birbeck <mark.birbeck@webbackplane.com>
- Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:02:23 +0100
- To: "T.V Raman" <raman@google.com>
- Cc: jfoliot@stanford.edu, hober0@gmail.com, tai@g5n.co.uk, public-html@w3.org
Hi Raman, I would also like to throw in my own "for the record" comment, if I may. :) You may recall that when I joined you in working on your @role module, the *only* change I made to your initial draft was to make the value of the attribute into a list of URIs, rather than a list of simple tokens. This was because I felt it was important that language concepts could be defined using RDF, and the WAI-ARIA work is an example of this approach. I mention this, because this power -- hooking in to the world of RDF -- is an additional argument, alongside the others that you rightly mention, for using a new attribute, rather than overloading @class. Regards, Mark On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:46 PM, T.V Raman<raman@google.com> wrote: > > For the record, I originally created the @role module for XHTML > because I was frustrated with having to scrape content off of > sites like CNN by looking at class values such as storyText12pt > and more obscure names. > > Well-designed classes can achieve the same end-result, but the > class attribute I felt had already been sufficiently abused to > make that goal hard. I have been repeatedly told by folks like > Tantek of microformats fame that that decision was a mistake --- > however, tying oneself to an over-used attr like class I felt > (and continue to remain convinced) > is too fragile, especially given that the class attr often > contains multiple values in places. > Also, it would be hard to go back and fix the large number of > HTML pages that use aclass value incorrectly --- e.g. say you > started assuming that class="nav" was the site navbar --- you > would get confused by other uses of class="nav" and likely think > them to be navbars. Better to rely in such cases on honestly > authored information --- rather than double-guessing. > > Edward O'Connor wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Toby wrote: >> > Possibly @role could be re-used. (@role isn't just an ARIA attribute, >> it's >> > intended to be used in other ways too.) >> >> You may be confusing ARIA's role="" attribute with the XHTML Role >> Attribute Module. They are separate, distinct attributes. Insofar as the >> current HTML5 draft goes, role=""'s sole use within HTML is for >> specifying ARIA roles on elements. > > Confusing or remembering? Despite the general disdain held by large swaths > of the HTML unwashed, there were some very good ideas inside of XHTML2 that > got dumped, just like the proverbial baby in the bath-water - @role being > one of them. > > ARIA's appropriation of the @role attribute was from XHTML2 for sure, but > the *idea* that @role represents is a powerful one, and is exceedingly more > powerful (and remember-able) than using the meaningless class attribute > notation currently in vogue. It *should* be considered more extensively, > but we already can hear the moaning and growling from the peanut gallery > (especially from the microformats camp). Too bad really: consider the > 'issue' with accesskeys and mapping to keyless devices or international > keyboards... if, instead of mapping a key to a function/feature you could > instead state a Role, then the user agent could handle the binding on its > own terms, rather than on terms forced by the content author. > > JF > > -- > Best Regards, > --raman > > Title: Research Scientist > Email: raman@google.com > WWW: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/ > Google: tv+raman > GTalk: raman@google.com, tv.raman.tv@gmail.com > PGP: http://emacspeak.sf.net/raman/raman-almaden.asc > > > -- Mark Birbeck, webBackplane mark.birbeck@webBackplane.com http://webBackplane.com/mark-birbeck webBackplane is a trading name of Backplane Ltd. (company number 05972288, registered office: 2nd Floor, 69/85 Tabernacle Street, London, EC2A 4RR)
Received on Sunday, 13 September 2009 11:03:07 UTC