Re: request agenda time to present X3D summary at HTML5 TPAC meeting

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 2009, at 19:40, Shelley Powers wrote:
>
>> Being able to use X3D in an HTML serialization, based on the
>> _precedent_ set by inclusion of SVG and MathML would be a very
>> interesting discussion item.
>
> I don't see SVG and MathML setting a precedent for X3D.
>
> When support for SVG and MathML was added to the HTML5 parsing algorithm,
> rendering SVG DOMs was already supported by 3 out of the top 4 browser
> engines and the fourth also had support for retained-mode markup-based 2D
> graphics (VML). So at that point in time, there was vendor consensus by
> implementation behavior showing that retained-mode markup-based 2D graphics
> were worth implementing and enabling SVG parsing in text/html was the
> shortest path of enabling retained-mode markup-based 2D graphics in
> text/html in the largest number of browser engines *given* what was already
> implemented.
>
> Likewise, given what was already implemented in Gecko and Opera for MathML
> DOMs, adding support for MathML in the text/html parser was the shortest
> path of adding inline math support to text/html. (Furthermore, there's a
> stronger case for why math should be inline than why either 2D or 3D
> graphics should be inline.)
>
> In the case of X3D, there's no pre-existing native support in any of the top
> 4 browser engines, so even if there were consensus that HTML should support
> inline markup-based retained-mode 3D graphics, it wouldn't follow that X3D
> being the format would be the shortest path to having the concept
> implemented.

There were two precedents set with the inclusion of SVG and MathML in
HTML5. The first precedent was to potentially allow other XML-based
content, including markup-based retained-mode 3D graphics. That
doesn't mean all have to be included, or any will be included: it just
means the fact that the specification is XML-based is not an automatic
barrier against inclusion, inline, in HTML.

The other precedent was to formalize a relationship between HTML5 and
SVG, and HTML5 and MathML. I believe this is more in line with what
the X3D folks are hoping.  From the web site that Don referenced:

---

We hope to trigger a process similar to how the SVG in HTML5
integration evolved:

* Provide a vision and runtime today to experiment with and
furthermore develop an integration model for declarative 3D in HTML5

* Get the discussion in the HTML5 and X3D communites going and evolve
the system and integration model

* Finally it would be part of the HTML5 standard and supported by
every major browser natively

---


>
> (This email shouldn't be read to be for or against X3D. I'm just pointing
> out that SVG and MathML don't set an applicable precedent here.)
>
>

Shelley

Received on Monday, 2 November 2009 13:48:11 UTC