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Re: Draft text for summary attribute definition

From: Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:09:12 +0000
Message-ID: <55687cf80903010309x5ed04deew5c4ecf425bfe976b@mail.gmail.com>
To: Philip TAYLOR <Philip-and-LeKhanh@royal-tunbridge-wells.org>
Cc: wai-xtech@w3.org, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Hi Philip,

>  Why is 'role="presentation"' preferable to 'role="layout"' here ?
>  I would have thought that the latter would be more transparent
>  to authors.

because ther is no role="layout" defined as far as I am aware, but
there is a role="presentation" defined in WAI-ARIA [1] and this
includes as one of its example use cases
"A layout table and/or any of its associated cells, rows, etc."



On 01/03/2009, Philip TAYLOR
<Philip-and-LeKhanh@royal-tunbridge-wells.org> wrote:
> [All individuals removed from CC list]
>  Composite reply, having watched the debate silently so far :
>  Leif Halvard Silli wrote:
> > This is also related to how sighted persons perceive a table. We perceive
> it as a collections of cells, in different relationships. To us there is one
> "cell" - or place - that relates to all the cells, and that is the caption.
> To add a summary for the table container becomes a little bit ... abstract.
> >
>  But we are not discussing where the summary should appear visually;
>  we are discussing where it should appear in the markup.  And in the
>  markup, <TABLE> is the 'one "cell" - or place - that relates to all
>  the cells', so it is surely as an attribute of <TABLE> that "summary"
>  should appear.
>  Gez Lemon wrote :
>  > A better approach to explicitly identify layout tables would be to use
>  > explicit markup, rather than interfering with an attribute whose
>  > primary purpose is to provide guidance on how to read a data table for
>  > people with vision impairments. Using role="presentation" on a layout
>  > table is infinitely better overloading the definition of the summary
>  > attribute.
>  Why is 'role="presentation"' preferable to 'role="layout"' here ?
>  I would have thought that the latter would be more transparent
>  to authors.
>  Ian Hickson wrote :
>  > The spec does in fact currently prohibit [the use of layout tables],
>  > explicitly, several times.
>  Then I think this aspect of the specification should be re-visited.
>  I believe that the specification should set out to address what is,
>  and what is not, syntactically valid HTML; I do not think that it
>  should attempt to define what is /semantically/ valid HTML, though
>  it should most certainly provide informative guidance on the latter.
>  Philip TAYLOR

with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG Europe
Director - Web Accessibility Tools Consortium

www.paciellogroup.com | www.wat-c.org
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Received on Sunday, 1 March 2009 11:09:53 UTC

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