- From: Al Gilman <alfred.s.gilman@ieee.org>
- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:46:40 -0400
- To: Chris Wilson <Chris.Wilson@microsoft.com>
- Cc: HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>, W3C WAI-XTECH <wai-xtech@w3.org>
Chris, I hear you are 'collating and distilling' the debates on HTML WG ISSUE-20 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/20 . Allow me to presume to contribute. [background/aside] I would like to ask you and Mike to agree with me on some joint-meeting time at the TPAC to discuss TABLE markup reform (joint = including representatives of at least PFWG and HTML WG). [good-ish times for us: start with an allocation in the PFWG meeting somewhere between morning break and lunch on Tuesday; continue in the HTML WG meeting some time not Saturday.] I am becoming increasingly convinced that to get the TABLE reform topic back on a productive track we [HTML WG, PFWG, and related stakeholders] *really* need to pursue both prongs of what you offered to PFWG at or F2F as advice on how to help, to wit: a) identify the functional requirement b) gain the support or at least the understanding of those who would have to code the implementation before attempting a decision in HTML WG at large. I actually lay a slightly different conceptual frame on this: Let me call it "gathering the interests of stakeholders." Talking functional _requirement_ sounds too much like we have already reduced this to a black and white "enough" threshold. Because there *are* tensions between the interests of different stakeholders, we first need to identify the interests (qualitative performance factors) of all stakeholders before we start talking compromise on what is 'enough.' Let me try to encapsulate some of the different interests I can see: * people with disabilities have an interest in having a machine-recognizable association between cells in the table and their in-the-table critical context. The critical context is comprised of the related facts and terms (cell contents) that you would use if you "tell me what this cell tells me, in a sentence." * more generally, many users have trouble interpreting tables. The trend in web content has been toward the use of transient extensions of the display that trigger off the focus or the mouse pointer location. There is a market opportunity for such transient displays to improve the effectiveness of table presentation (quite broadly) but this would depend on the transient display being totally canned or depending on the associations discussed above if generated. + note: the 'functional requirement' is to be expressed in terms of "what associations need to be captured." Here 'captured' means 'conveyed in machine-recognizable ways.' 'Machine recognizable ways' includes syntax patterns such as <td> is within @scope of <th> as well as more direct forms such as "ID of <th> is in @headers of <td>." Can't talk about the functional requirement in terms of @scope, @headers, <td> and <th> other than as examples, because the definitions of these things are on the supply side. Evolution in their definitions is in the realm of reasonable proposals for how to improve the present situation. + note: I think we should be able to come up with a definition of header hierarchy where there is consensus that this is present in the table genre that we have to cover. It's widespread. * [related general requirement] users and authors both have an interest in the authors being able to input information in terms they understand. * authors have an interest in being able to input these associations from 'general' to 'specific' (example: <th> to <td>) or from 'specific' to 'general.' * users have an interest in authors being able to check the completeness of their associations from 'specific' (cell to understand) to 'general' (critical context). * there is a tension (competition) between performance on these user and author interests. + note: That tension constitutes demand. It creates business opportunities. * Accessibility specialists have a business opportunity in providing user-need satisfaction above and beyond what the lay author would produce readily. Organizations can, by labor specialization in the content production workflow, perform above and beyond what their content experts could achieve without this outsourcing or additional workgroup. * Authoring tool developers have a business opportunity in providing WYSIWYG-dialog-to-markup transformation of the association information above. They share the business opportunity to mitigate the tension between user and author interest that the consultants address. * Servers and website sponsors have an interest in byte-count efficiency in what goes over the wire. + note: this tends to favor @scope-like markup over @headers-like markup where applicable. + note: @scope-like markup requires more burdensome processing on the client side to get the associations to the user than does @headers-like markup. + note: @headers processing is part of the status quo on the client side as available to users with disabilities; @scope processing is not + note: @headers uncouples the table organization and appearance from the sufficiency of association, with an attendant cost in byte count. The decoupling is helpful in both the consultant-mediated and tool- mediated markup use cases. + note: there is division about whether scope-like markup can ever offer enough coverage so as to make @headers-like markup unnecessary. + note: getting the association information out of indirect (scope-like) markup involves processing on the client that isn't there now. Browsers and AT both have the opportunity to do (some) of this. The past successes with accessibility APIs (cf. WAI-ARIA) suggest we may do better with some standard functional model for the division of labor between the browser and the layered AT. Example division of labor: ++ browser provides via DOM a method to learn the "immediate critical context" (in bottom-up @headers-like direction) for cells that combines the results of @scope-implications analysis with @headers data. These are cumulative; @headers does not cancel @scope. ++ AT is expected to chain critical context as appropriate, that is to say if the cells cited as critical content for the focussed cell have themselves non-empty critical context, the AT will follow and optionally user their context in presenting content to the user. In other words the browser-supported method does not flatten the transitive closure of the immediate critical context. + note: we need to learn how willing the affected code-developing parties are to implement some such allocation of function. + note: the new <datagrid> element offers an alternative for some of the "irregular tables" that formed the justification for @headers in HTML4. + note: @aria-labelledby may offer an alternative for some cases that, before ARIA, would have to have been solved with @headers.
Received on Sunday, 14 September 2008 14:47:22 UTC