W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html@w3.org > January 2008

Re: Dissatisfaction with HTML WG

From: Dean Edridge <dean@55.co.nz>
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 16:29:31 +1300
To: Ben 'Cerbera' Millard <cerbera@projectcerbera.com>
Cc: HTMLWG <public-html@w3.org>
Message-id: <4788341B.4020702@55.co.nz>

Hi Ben,

I don't see how your comments have anything to do with what I have 
complained about.



Ben 'Cerbera' Millard wrote:
> Dean Edridge wrote:
>> Yes you may look at it that way if your boss is one of the eight 
>> exclusive members of the WHATWG [...]
>
> WHATWG participation was open to all from the start, AFAICT:

Sure, I never disputed this.

>
> <http://www.whatwg.org/mailing-list>

I've been on the whatwg@whatwg.org mailing list (and participated) for 
over a year now thanks and I'm also subscribed to others including:
help@whatwg.org
implementors@whatwg.org
commit-watchers@lists.whatwg.org

>
>
> There's a bunch of other ways to participate:

Yes, and I am participating thank you very much Ben.
I have participated on the IRC channels before too.
I'm on the four mailing lists of the WHATWG and have participated on the 
forum.

> <http://www.whatwg.org/>

Yes I'm familiar with that web site, I have a link to it at the top left 
of my browser, thanks.

>
>
> Who are these "eight exclusive members"? In what way are they exclusive?

There are only eight members of the WHATWG, everyone else is a participant.

http://www.whatwg.org/charter#members
>
> Membership is by invitation only, and consists of a number of 
> representatives from various browser manufacturers. This group, which 
> is referred to as the members, will provide overall guidance as 
> described in the charter above. The members currently consists of:
>
>     * Brendan Eich
>     * David Baron
>     * David Hyatt
>     * Dean Edwards
>     * HÃ¥kon Wium Lie
>     * Ian Hickson
>     * Johnny Stenback
>     * Maciej Stachowiak
>

I simply objected to the WHATWG having such control over the HTML WG. 
They, like a lot of other groups and individuals participating in this 
group have their own goals and commercial interests. I think it's 
dangerous to have a group of people with commercial interests in charge 
of a specification that everyone else in the world will have to use.
For example; if someone has a good idea that would improve the web but 
Apple or Google wouldn't be able to increase their revenue by supporting 
it; would Ian be allowed to implement that idea into the spec?

> ...There are bits and pieces scattered throughout public-html but it 
> takes volunteers to do actual work putting it together coherently and 
> accurately. You (and anyone else who will spare the time) can help 
> this happen faster.

What are you implying here Ben? Don't assume that I'm not involved or 
doing something please.
I have spent considerable time working out ideas of how the web can be 
improved through the various groups I'm involved with. I've sent 
numerous emails to people like Ian Hickson, Anne van Kesteren, Henri 
Sivonen and the chairs of the group discussing ideas for the spec. I 
subscribe to an enormous amount of Blogs from people that talk about the 
spec and ideas of how to improve it and have Google alerts for "html5", 
"xhtml5", "WHATWG" and others that keep me informed of what's going on.

Please don't assume that I'm not involved or "pulling my weight" in the 
process of getting a better web, Ben.

>
> Summarising test results, proposals, pros and cons on the wiki is one 
> way. Specifically:
>
> * <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ComplexTables>
> * <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueTableHeaders>
> * <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/SummaryForTABLE>
> * <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/TableAccessibility>
>
> An index page is here:
>
> <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/>

Please don't assume that I'm not aware of this or not involved please Ben.

>
>
> There's an Issue Tracker to help show who is working on what and what 
> progress they are making:
>
> <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/>
>
> If you want to help, get stuck in.

???

>
>
> Dean Edridge wrote:
>> Yes, and Ian and Dave are two of the eight members of the WHATWG. 
>> Which means that the spec is being edited by the WHATWG. And this 
>> isn't about me not liking the WHATWG, they are welcome to 
>> participate, I just don't want them running the group.
>
> The group co-Chairs are Dan Connolly of W3C and Chris Wilson of 
> Microsoft. The W3C Director is Tim Berners-Lee of W3C. None of these 
> participate at WHATWG, AFAIK.

What has this to do with what I said?


Dean Edridge
Received on Saturday, 12 January 2008 03:29:53 UTC

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