- From: Robert J Burns <rob@robburns.com>
- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 00:35:44 +0300
- To: T.V Raman <raman@google.com>
- Cc: ian@hixie.ch, public-html@w3.org
Hi T.V. Raman Some further thoughts on your proposal[1]. On Aug 27, 2008, at 6:42 PM, T.V Raman wrote: > 1.1 Executive Summary: > • Make alt optional. > • Define additional role values for use with graphical elements > including images. > • Add new DOM method img.getEXIFData to pick out metadata from > images generated from digital cameras. Let me first change the order of presentation: > • Define additional role values for use with graphical elements > including images. Here I completely agree. Gregory, I and others have been advocating for this for some time. I feel that we should: 1) provide a global role attribute that accepts aria and xhtml keywords, 2) require the role attribute on all embedded media elements (especially for non-text media) and require at least one of a set of specific embedded media keywords, 3) define a set of role keywords for embedded media that authors can use to convey important, often indispensable, information to AT users. (BTW, I've added your suggestions for keywords to the wiki: satelliteimage and drawing[2]). > • Make alt optional. Given the adoption of a required role attribute on embedded media, I think we can make alt optional in some cases. Though I think we can also make the attribute and significant text required/recommended (as in error/warning respective) for certain role keywords. For other role keywords the same semantics of HTML4 null alt is already implied (e.g., decorative, illustrative)[3]. My earlier response still applies[4] her as well. For authoring tools (such as Flickr) where the alt text has not been provided by the author (or even where the required role keywords are not provided and machine derived) , the best thing to do is leave the document in a machine verifiable non-conforming state. There is no option, but to leave the document non-conforming and adding alt or placeholder alt text to fool the machine is counter-productive. So we should raise the conformance standards for accessibility, but also raise the conformance standard for authoring tool so that they re even required to produce non-conforming HTML whenever the author provides insufficient information to make the document conforming. > • Add new DOM method img.getEXIFData to pick out metadata from > images generated from digital cameras. I think the importance of the media metadata is typically underestimated. The repeated implementation of server-side solutions to provide EXIF metadata demonstrates the use case demand for this feature. And it make a lot of sense to provide it client side since the image is already in the user's cache, so why require another round- trip just to get the metadata the user already has. However, I think more important than EXIF metadata is other human authored metadata that can also be stored immanent to the media file. This other metadata is what the wiki currently addresses[5]. One way might be to extract XMP metadata, or to even develop a separate media file metadata specification within the W3C (though the W3C could also define one or two or more specific XMP properties that make use of XHTML within the XMP XML inside the image file format). To me the use case for this is even more important than the EXIF metadata both for accessibility and for general usability. The exposure of title, caption and description metadata immanent to the media file addresses the needs your proposal highlights. For example your logo example: > • A yelow Labrador saying "Emacspeak — the complete audio desktop!". > • Raman's guide-dog, Hubbell Labrador saying "Emacspeak — The > Complete Audio Desktop!". > See discussion about the role attribute later in this document for a > solution. Their are two separate needs text equivalents can serve. One is as alternate replacement text where the text conveys the meaning of the media within the present context. For your logo that might be: "Emacspeak — the complete audio desktop". However, there's another (at least one) text equivalent that AT users also find useful: that is a text description of the media. In this case "Raman's yellow Labrador guide-dog, Hubbell Labrador, saying "Emacspeak — The Complete Audio Desktop!". Both types of text equivalents can be important to understanding the image and its relation to the prose and the subculture within which the logo has meaning. Other text equivalents such as titles, captions, etc. provide further information. Some of these text equivalents are related only to the media in is present document context (e.g., alt text, caption) while other text equivalents remain a part of the media wherever it appears (e.g., description, title). Also by using the metadata we make media more useful and searchable. Servers might also add access to this metadata. Imagine doing a 'head' request (or a newly specified request method) for http://www.example.com/images/photos/photo1.jpeg and getting back the EXIF, XMP, W3C and other metadata for the file (without needing to burden the network by downloading the file itself). Similarly other authoring tools, photo manipulation tools, and other UAs can add similar metadata read and edit support. Finally, by encouraging description, title, and other immanent text equivalents within the media file formats themselves, we promote more ubiquitous text equivalents (doing for image formats just as we're planning to do for video and audio formats). Even when an author neglects to add suitable alt replacement text, there may be something meaningful in the image's own immanent metadata. So authors end up authoring more accessible documents than they otherwise would and they don't even know it. The promotion and use of standardized immanent metadata for audio formats has already yielded great user benefits, but those benefits have not yet been migrated to image formats. In response to Lachy's issues, the actual structure of the DOM attributes and methods can be worked out. The important thing is that we provide some DOM access. Yes we could require UAs to provide this access separate from the DOM though some UI, but it would be better code design to place this feature in the DOM of rendering engines so that other UAs built on those rendering engines can present the data in a manner suitable to their user base. Take care, Rob [1]: <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0829.html> [2]: <http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/RoleAttribute#head-610fd0a42b1d8af2253378db31d9d28bd22988b9 > [3]: <http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/RoleAttribute#head-d3e478ffe75eb909774fb779e1a90b0e22688b67 > [4]: <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0834.html> [5]: <http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/UANormAndDOMForMediaPropeties>
Received on Thursday, 28 August 2008 21:36:32 UTC