- From: Philip Taylor <pjt47@cam.ac.uk>
- Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 14:43:49 +0100
- To: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- CC: "public-html@w3.org" <public-html@w3.org>
Ian Hickson wrote: > On Thu, 7 Aug 2008, Philip Taylor wrote: >> <img src="..." alt="{x \over y} = {1 \over {y \over x}}"> > > ...would be a horrific alternative text to give a screen reader. I'm not aware of any better alternatives for the general case. Text like: > <img src="..." alt="The fraction x over y is equal to 1 divided by the > fraction y over x."> is clearly unscalable when you have non-trivial equations. Since these LaTeX-to-HTML tools are primarily aimed at sighted users with graphical browsers, and only a tiny fraction of users will rely on screen readers, it doesn't make sense to spend significant effort optimising the output for screen readers. The tools can't be expected to ask authors for a textual alternative to each equation (because the whole reason for this new alt stuff is that tools often can't do that and have to make do with the limited information and intelligence they have). So the tools will carry on doing the best they can do that doesn't take much effort, which is to put the LaTeX source of the equation in the alt attribute. Given that that situation seems unlikely to change, it's a problem if HTML 5 adds features that will trip people up by reserving certain syntax and making it non-conforming to match that syntax when supplying real alternative text. (If it wasn't non-conforming, then there would be less of a problem - people could write <img alt="{x \over y}"> with no worries other than that it might be rendered slightly differently than other equations by a few UAs, which isn't a major issue; or they could write <img alt="{LaTeX equation: {x \over y}}"> so it'd at least be handled consistently for all equations. But HTML 5 doesn't allow either of those, so the conformance requirements are a problem for people who care about conformance. But making it conforming still wouldn't solve the problem of some UAs misidentifying the equations as critical images with no attempt at proper alternative text.) > I don't think it's equivalent to the image at all. It's the source of a > program that was used to generate the image, but that's not the same > thing. Would you consider the replacement text of a fractal to be the C > source code that generated it? Or the replacement text for an SVG file to > be the raw source code of that SVG file? The mapping between source and output in those cases is a very substantial change - the text "<circle>" and the graphical rendering of a circle are very different, and information that is obvious in one format can be almost entirely hidden in the other. The mapping between LaTeX source and output is far more straightforward - the text "{x^2 \over y}" and the graphical rendering 2 x --- y are quite similar, and it doesn't get much worse when the equations become more complex. The changes are just in layout, and in removal of some symbols, and in rendering of some symbols as special shapes - there's no revelation of hidden information in one form or the other[*]. So I don't think the analogy works. [*] (except in some quite rare cases of mathematical jokes, like "\lim_{\omega \rightarrow \infty} 3 = 8", which only make sense in the graphical form) -- Philip Taylor pjt47@cam.ac.uk
Received on Friday, 8 August 2008 13:44:33 UTC