- From: Marghanita da Cruz <marghanita@ramin.com.au>
- Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 09:16:04 +1000
- To: Ben Boyle <benjamins.boyle@gmail.com>
- CC: Dave Singer <singer@apple.com>, Håkon Wium Lie <howcome@opera.com>, Henri Sivonen <hsivonen@iki.fi>, HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
Ben Boyle wrote: > All these options are good, but I support choice for authors. > Precedence should be clearly defined in the spec. I suggest: image > referenced from HTML > poster frame > first frame. Can we (authors) have img="posterframe:sample.mp4" or img="sample.jpg" height= width= (where height and width of image and video should be the same) audio=sample.mp3 or audio=sample.wav or audio="sample.ogg" (ogg audio could require a flac or vorbis decoder could be streaming <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Oct/0097.html>) video=sample.mp4 or video="sample.ogg" (requires theora decoder) or video=sample.mov Could video and audio just be an attributes of object? I like using the right mouse button to show properties - play or download audio, play or download video, sample audio/video (say play 1 minute or low quality version advise user of size unless streaming) Marghanita > > There is a clear benefit for users on limited bandwidth or quotas in > having an image thumbnail downloaded in preference to a video file > that they may choose not to play and thus never need to waste > bandwidth on. What about pages that include multiple videos? Think > "video blogs" and the like. You want to download all those files just > to show thumbnails? Situations like that could benefit from the > explicit image thumbnail approach. In other situations, the > posterframe/first frame sounds excellent. I would like authors to have > the flexibility to choose the most appropriate for their publishing > needs. > > As has been pointed out the spec already describes a complex method > for achieving this in markup. Authors can and will do this anyway, but > let's make it simple, as Hakon suggested. > > cheers > Ben > > > On 10/11/07, Dave Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote: >> At 11:25 +0200 10/10/07, Håkon Wium Lie wrote: >>> Also sprach Henri Sivonen: >>> >>> > The <video> element currently lacks width and height attributes on >>> > the grounds that: >>> > 1) They'd be presentational. >>> > 2) YouTube and the like put all videos in the same box. >>> > 3) Different dimensions are called for different media, so the >>> > <div><style scoped media='...'> video { width: ...; height: ...; } </ >>> > style><style scoped media='...'> video { width: ...; height: ...; } </ >>> > style><video>...</video></div> would encourage media-independence >>> > while <video width='...' height='...'>...</video> would not. >>> > >>> > And, yet, for *practical* purposes, authors seem to *expect* to have >>> > width and height attributes at their disposal. (Based on expectations >>> > voiced on IRC.) I suggest adding width and height attributes to <video>. >>> >>> I support this. >>> >>> While on the subject of pragmatic attributes, I would also like to >>> propose another attribute -- still -- to point to an image that is >>> shown until the video itself is played. The current specification >>> indicates that the first frame of the video should be used for this. >>> Often, the first frame will be black or otherwise not representative >>> for the video that follows. >> I certainly don't think we should mandate the >> first frame, agreed; QuickTime files even have a >> field "poster time" which tells QT what time is a >> good one to get a poster still from. >> >>> Being able to explicitly set a still image >>> is a basic function in my DVD recorder; this is very useful as the >>> first frame of my home video snippets are often blank. Wikimedia have >>> started using the <video> element on their pages, but they start out >>> as <img> elements: >>> >>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Video >>> >>> That is, they don't instantiate the <video> element until the user has >>> pressed play. A simple attribute would address their needs: >>> >>> <video src="foo.ogg" still="foo.jpg"> >>> >>> Other names for the attribute could be "img" or "index". >>> >>> >From a performance perspective, it seems simpler to fetch a small >>> still image of fixed length rater than fetching a part of the video >>> file and hoping that a full frame is included. >>> >>> >From an authoring perspective, it seems simpler to use the attribute >>> rather than editing the video file (e.g., by inserting the desired >>> still image in the beginning of the file). >>> >>> I don't think the proposed attribute add any new accessibility issues >>> as the still image -- one must assume -- is taken from within the video. >>> >>> An alternative approach is to specify a time -- say, "3.5s" -- into >>> the video from where the still should be fetched. >>> >>> The HTML5 spec, in section 3.4.6 has an example >>> showing how to encode still images: >>> >>> <p> >>> <input type="image" src="frame.png" alt="Play Video" >>> onclick=" if (nextSibling.load) nextSibling.load(); >>> disabled = true; >>> return false;" >>> ><video src="video.ogg" controls="" irrelevant="" >>> onloadedfirstframe=" >>> irrelevant = false; >>> previousSibling.irrelevant = true; >>> autoplay = true" >>> onerror=" parentNode.irrelevant = true; >>> parentNode.nextSibling.irrelevant = false"> >>> </video> >>> </p><p irrelevant=""> >>> Playback unavailable. >>> <a href="video.ogg">Download Video</a> >>> </p> >>> >>> This seems complex to me; I'm a simple person. >>> >>> -h&kon (who only speaks for himself on this issue) >>> >>> Håkon Wium Lie CTO °þe(r)ª >>> howcome@opera.com http://people.opera.com/howcome >> >> -- >> David Singer >> Apple/QuickTime >> >> -- Marghanita da Cruz http://www.ramin.com.au Phone: (+61)0414 869202
Received on Thursday, 11 October 2007 23:16:07 UTC