- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 18:09:08 +0100
- To: Murray Maloney <murray@muzmo.com>
- CC: Tina Holmboe <tina@greytower.co.uk>, www-html@w3.org, public-html@w3.org
Murray Maloney wrote: > Hmmm. Not so hasty. You can't actually say that it has no meaning. > The reason is that you have not examined the profile that is associated > with that HTML document -- because I didn't provide a pointer. > > The thing is, my profile says that when class="ship" the meaning is the > name of a ship, which happens to formatted in italic typeface by convention > when it is available. > Italic text is emphasized. Don't you think there is strictly a difference between distinguishing some text from surrounding text with italics and emphasizing text? For example, when italic is used for book, movie, journal, play titles, foreign phrases, taxonomical terms, technical terms, and ship names you wouldn't necessarily apply a verbal stress to the same terms (you might sometimes, but not always). This difference is not some "neo-semanticist" fantasy; it's a common distinction in print publishing. For instance, the Oxford Style Guide (ISBN 0-19-869175-0) introduces italic like this (p. 154): "Italic type is a typographic variation of ordinary roman that is used to indicate emphasis or heavy stress in speech; to style titles, headings, indexes, and cross-references generally; and to indicate foreign words and phrases." If emphasis really was all italic is for, then everything after "emphasis" would have been superfluous. When the Guide goes on to say (p. 155) that we should "Employ italics sparingly for emphasis, since their unrestrained use can seem startling or precious" it's clearly not trying to discourage us from using italics for ship names! A little earlier on p. 154, the Guide says: "In most contexts, roman type is the standard face used for text matter, though it can be distinguished, for reasons of emphasis, additional clarity, or common convention, through the use of other typographic styles and forms." Note there are three reasons. Many rationales for italic seem to fall into the later categories. As you yourself say above, ship names are italic "by convention". > What is the difference between <i>term</i> and <em>term</em>? In HTML 4.01 as specified: the first is a term with a font style, the second is a term the author has emphasized. In text/html in the wild, the discernible difference is minimal, unless like Gregory you're in the habit of writing your own CSS. >> > I have been layering semantics onto the CLASS attribute and REL/REV >> since >> > 1993. >> >> With support from which standard? > > Let's see, we used REL/REV in 1993 based on HTML 1.0. > > We used CLASS since it was introduced in 1996, I think. > That is when SoftQuad developed HoTMetaL Intranet Publisher. The HTML 4.01 standard could be interpreted to authorize this, though not explicitly. Class may be used for "general purpose processing by user agents". http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#adef-class User agents may use a profile URI to "perform some activity based on known conventions for that profile. For instance, search engines could provide an interface for searching through catalogs of HTML documents, where these documents all use the same profile for representing catalog entries." http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#profiles On the other hand, HTML user agents aren't required to recognize additional semantics from profiles, so Tina's UA would probably be within its "rights" by the HTML 4.01 "contract" to ignore class="shipName" when trying to interpret <i>. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Sunday, 6 May 2007 17:09:30 UTC