Re: More on <CAPTION> element etc

At 12:31 +0100 UTC, on 2007-06-22, Joshue O Connor wrote:

> Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
>> Exactly which screen reader are you referring to here?
> Well there are several. The main one used in Ireland is JAWS, that is
> what most of the users I know use. But also WinEyes, Orca and NVDA are
> also in use. Some users may have several.

We know there are many, that's why I asked which one in particular you were
referring to (when you said they don't provide table captions before the
table unless authored so).


> Yes. The browser could be considered to be a layer, then another layer
> (OSM) which accepts data (HTML etc) that is then passed to the UA. Data
> doesn't really get lost though.

Well, if you rely on a GUI browser that ignores label, accesskey, scope,
headers, summary, speech/braille CSS, etc. then even though such is provided
by the author of the web page, it might never reach the screen reader at all.
Or does it?


>>> Again most use the OSM. A screen reader will also work in various modes
>>> > and for example only interact directly with the web page itself in what
>>> > JAWS refers to as 'Forms mode'. This is to navigate forms, enter text
>>> > into form fields etc.
>> Exactly in what sense does it 'interact' with the HTML itself? AFAIK Jaws
>> still needs IE or FIrefox.
> Yes, but the screen reader usually does this in a 'virtual mode' using
> the OSM layer (as such). It then needs to change mode when direct user
> interaction with the browser is required, to enter data in a form field
> for example, so it must leave its virtual mode and interact directly
> with the browser.

Then, as you say, it is interacting with the browser, not with "the web page
itself'. It's still relying on a GUI browser that is not aimed at the task.


>> the greatest HTML can
>> easily get mangled to something quite poor there.
> Potentially, but It actually works.

Are you saying that all screen readers manage to receive every aspect of a
web page, even when they rely on a GUI browser that ignores certain parts
(label, accesskey, scope, headers, summary, speech/braille CSS, etc.) of that
web page?

Sander Tekelenburg
The Web Repair Initiative: <>

Received on Friday, 22 June 2007 11:56:31 UTC