Re: LONGDESC: some current problems and a proposed solution added to the wiki

Sander Tekelenburg wrote:
> At 09:43 +0200 UTC, on 2007-07-02, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 20:02:22 +0200, Sander Tekelenburg <> wrote:
>>> How realistic is it to expect people to use <object>, given that IE
>>> breaks interoperability?
>> Probably slightly more realistic than expecting people to use a new
>> element that works nowhere.
> Could you be a bit more verbose please? I can think of several things you
> might mean, but if I need to guess, I might guess wrong.

The problem is this:

<object> works in most browsers except IE
<picture> works in no browsers

A-priori then, since less effort is required to fix the bugs in one 
browser than to implement a new element in multiple browsers, it is 
better not to introduce the extra complexity of a new element. Indeed, 
<picture> itself may, if specced, still not have identical 
implementations in all browsers, so not improving the current situation 

There are several ways that this argument could be countered:
* If it were known that Microsoft had no intention of changing their 
broken <object> behavior, ever, but would implement a <picture> element. 
Regrettably, Microsoft have not been forthcoming with their viewpoints 
in this WG [1].

* If <picture> were defined with a better fallback mechanism than 
<object> so it would work very-nearly as-intended in existing UAs

* If it were demonstrated that <picture> offered significant advantages 
over <object> to either authors or implementors in the simplicity of 
writing documents or UAs respectively so as to provide a trade-off for 
the extra language complexity of having multiple ways of achieving the 
same effect.

[1] With the notable exception their intention to tie the HTML 5 doctype 
to a specific set of rendering bugs.

"Instructions to follow very carefully.
Go to Tesco's.  Go to the coffee aisle.  Look at the instant coffee. 
Notice that Kenco now comes in refil packs.  Admire the tray on the 
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crushed on its long journey from the factory. Now pick up a refil bag. 
Admire the antioxidant claim.  Gaze in awe at the environmental claims 
written on the back of the refil bag.  Start stroking it gently, its my 
packaging precious, all mine....  Be thankful that Amy has only given 
you the highlights of the reasons why that bag is so brilliant."
-- ajs

Received on Monday, 2 July 2007 19:38:52 UTC