- From: Philip & Le Khanh <Philip-and-LeKhanh@Royal-Tunbridge-Wells.Org>
- Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 00:56:28 +0100
- To: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
- CC: tina@greytower.net, "Philip Taylor (Webmaster)" <P.Taylor@Rhul.Ac.Uk>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > Philip said, and I quote: "The W3C should define HTML, and browser > manufacturers should be willing to accept that definition (or to reject > it, at their own risk: this is a free world)." That does not sound like > constructive engagement to me. It sounds like he thinks the spec should > be defined in a way that ignores or overrides implementor input, and > then the implementors need to suck it up. I sense an undertone of > resentment against browsers in all this. My apologies to Philip if I > have misunderstood him. Neither "ignores" nor "overrides", and equally not "blindly accepts", but rather "considers" in the light of other input, then rules accordingly. The W3C /is/ the web standards authority, and it is their responsibility to ensure that any standards published in their name reflect the very best available received wisdom. Until very recently, there was more-or-less universal consensus that HTML was a Document Markup Language whose sole r\^ole was to indicate a document's structure. The rendering of that structure was the browser's task, and that rendering could be modified by the use of style sheets. This consensus did not come about by chance : rather it was the result of years of observation of the mess that resulted if one tried to use HTML both to indicate structure and to affect form. Now, for reasons that I do not pretend to understand, the W3C seem to be bowing to pressure from the very same group (not of individuals, but of ?vested? interests) that created the mess in the first place, by which I mean the browser implementors. Remember that it was they (Microsoft, Netscape et al) that led to the bloated language that was HTML 3.2; now, with HTML 4.01 Strict already pointing the way to a leaner, cleaner, language, once again the browser implementors are seeking to re-introduce language bloat. But this time they are doing so in a way that is far harder for the W3C to resist : rather than each going his/her own way, they are actively working /with/ each other to either retain a feature that has already been formally deprecated, or to define a new set of "added value" elements; and whenever one of these is called into question, they defend its retention/introduction by screaming "interoperability" or "compatibility with the web". But "interoperability" as they are choosing to define it is exactly the same as the boy with the football : it's his ball, so he decides who plays and to which rules. And as Tina has frequently pointed out, "compatibility with the web" simply means accepting that virtually all the tag soup that has been churned out in the past is, in fact, "valid HTML", so long as you are willing to redefine "valid" using Humpty Dumpty's definition [*]. Philip Taylor -------- [*] "`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
Received on Monday, 30 April 2007 23:56:31 UTC