- From: Zi Bin Cheah <zibin@opera.com>
- Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:31:58 +0200
- To: Yuan Chao <yuanchao@gmail.com>
- Cc: Ethan Chen <chief@ethantw.net>, 中文HTML5同樂會ML <public-html-ig-zh@w3.org>, "KangHao Lu (Kenny)" <kennyluck@csail.mit.edu>
On Sep 30, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Yuan Chao wrote: > 2010/9/30 Ethan Chen <chief@ethantw.net> > > 最後一項是讓相鄰兩專名底下的專名號不相連，這個 > 作法有點問題，最好的方式如下圖，文字間沒有任何 > 間隔，底線卻有： > > 這張圖是 Yahoo 注音輸入法的標詞功能，方便我們選字 > 用的。我覺得這應該是瀏覽器實作 underline 的問 > 題，Yahoo 做得出來瀏覽器也該做得出來。是不是有列 > 入標準的可能呢？ 几种可能性 1。用 <b> Ethan提到<b>比<mark>更合适，因为mark带有强调作用 2。新标签 大家是否知道日韩那边有没有这样的请求？ 更简单的问以下，大家觉得网上使用的可能性会多吗？ 还是书名号使用究竟还是边缘的case？ > 這點很有意義，標專名號的目的，就是要幫助分辨名 > 詞斷詞的部份。英文的word是靠空白間隔， > 漢字就得靠「經驗」跟標點符號了。要是拿CSS來做， > 可以靠增加字間距的方式？ > 我也覺得還是應該要列入標準當中。 > > 所以另一個討論串中，拿空白來分隔英文，其實是以 > 西文的思維來處理？ > (個人也是偏好目前辦公室軟體的做法) > >> 同时请教一下，现在标点符号的标准用法是ruby吗？ > 你指的是「文字標註音標」嗎？ > 這是指用ruby畫專名號跟書名號嗎？ 只是突然想到ruby负责标符号，那它也能不能标书名 号？不过又好象没有牵扯到。。。 > > > > 在 Sep 30, 2010 6:26 PM 時， Zi Bin Cheah 寫到： > >> 专名号在大马算是没人用，大陆那边应该也少用。可 >> 能港台教科书有用，电纸书盛行也可能会推动使用 >> 率。 >> >> Ian拒绝用<u>语义化来用专名号其实我本人觉得是对 >> 的。试想想现在大家脑子里一看到<U>就想到underline, >> 重新教育有多难，而且大家都会继续滥用。 >> >> 当然这没有解决专名号的需求。我想到的一个方法是 >> 用mark然后用CSS去underline它。不晓得这个方法实际 >> 吗？ >> >> 同时请教一下，现在标点符号的标准用法是ruby吗？ >> >> On Sep 30, 2010, at 1:46 AM, KangHao Lu (Kenny) wrote: >> >>> 說明一下、、這算是對之前專名號的討論[1]做的回 >>> 應，總之就是希望HTML5標準書至少不會把<u>放在「不 >>> 合標準的標籤」[2] 而至少放在「將被拋棄但是合標 >>> 準」[3]。很抱歉沒先在這個郵件群組得到共識，但 >>> 是從10/1開始回報標準錯誤的過程會進入下一個階段 >>> 所以我至少希望這個議題在這個時候被拿出來討論 >>> 一下。我目前的看法是 >>> >>> - 加一個新標籤（像是<pn>之類的）真的很不可能 >>> - 用<a>或<a href>（屬性沒值）是一種濫用 >>> - <span class="pn"> 還是有點太長了 >>> - Mike跟我講說<i>留下來的很大原因是因為西方會用 >>> 斜體標船名，總不能發明一個<ship>吧。所以<u>是比 >>> 較實在的，而且也不少人支持把<u>拿回來。 >>> >>> >>> >>> 總之這個議題處理的狀況都會CC到這個列表啦，如果 >>> 這個提案被回絕了大家也多多瞭解這個HTML5編輯Ian >>> Hickson是怎麼做事的吧。議題回報裡我也提到了之前 >>> 的討論（三年前了、、），有些為什麼<u>不見了但 >>> 是<b><i>回來了的原因（主要就是<u>跟超連結的混亂 >>> 問題）。不過那時候都沒什麼人提到專名號所以這 >>> 次就順便提了一提啦！ >>> >>> 歡迎大家用HTML5 Bug Tracker的時候CC到這邊來。 >>> >>> 有空再多介紹一些HTML5的名人吧（像是Bug裡提到的 >>> Apple的Maciej[5]） >>> >>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-zh/2010Aug/threadl#msg184 >>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features >>> [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features >>> [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268 >>> [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Stachowiak >>> >>> 此致 >>> >>> Kenny >>> >>> On 2010/09/30, at 8:06, bugzilla@jessica.w3.org wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10838 >>>> >>>> Summary: Make <u> conforming. >>>> Product: HTML WG >>>> Version: unspecified >>>> Platform: PC >>>> URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but- >>>> conforming-features >>>> OS/Version: All >>>> Status: NEW >>>> Severity: major >>>> Priority: P3 >>>> Component: HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) >>>> AssignedTo: ian@hixie.ch >>>> ReportedBy: kennyluck@w3.org >>>> QAContact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org >>>> CC: mike@w3.org, public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org, >>>> public-html@w3.org, public-i18n-cjk@w3.org, >>>> public-html-ig-zh@w3.org >>>> >>>> >>>> This was discussed in a long thread[1] three years ago. There was >>>> no consensus >>>> and no response from the editor, but since some people like >>>> Maciej think we can >>>> make <u> at least conforming[2], I would like to raise this bug >>>> to catch the >>>> editor's attention. >>>> >>>> Proper name mark, in Chinese [3] is a use case that was slightly >>>> mentioned in >>>> the thread (see also an example picture[4]). The purpose of this >>>> mark is to >>>> highlight *every* proper noun in some text to help the reader >>>> break words, >>>> cause Chinese people don't use spaces for word breaking. Although >>>> it is no >>>> longer popular recently, proper name mark is still used in some >>>> textbooks in >>>> Taiwan (esp. children's Chinese textbook) and Hong Kong. Because >>>> the purpose >>>> and frequency of using "proper name mark" in a piece of text is >>>> similar to code >>>> highlighting, I personally don't think it's appropriate to use >>>> <mark> for this >>>> purpose since the spec says "This (<mark>) is separate from syntax >>>> highlighting, for which span is more appropriate." But then <span >>>> class="pn"> >>>> is probably too long. This is not yet a very prevalent use case >>>> because proper >>>> name marks are often used in combination with vertical text and >>>> vertical text >>>> is not yet popular on the Web. >>>> >>>> While I do strongly agree that an underlined text which is not a >>>> hyperlink >>>> confuses the user in his/her browsing experience, there are HTML >>>> user agents >>>> for which browsing the Web isn't the main purpose and hence the >>>> user might not >>>> get confused. e-book readers are such examles. >>>> >>>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268 >>>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0307 >>>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name_mark >>>> [4] http://www.go8.com.tw/files/4168%200004.jpg >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Configure bugmail: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/userprefs.cgi?tab=email >>>> ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- >>>> You are on the CC list for the bug. >>>> >>> >> >> Regards, >> >> Zi Bin Cheah / 谢子斌 >> >> Web Evangelist >> / Developer Relations / Site Compatibility / Products Group / >> >> Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway >> + 47 23 69 25 81 / twitter: zibin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Yuan Chao Regards, Zi Bin Cheah / 谢子斌 Web Evangelist / Developer Relations / Site Compatibility / Products Group / Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway + 47 23 69 25 81 / twitter: zibin
Received on Thursday, 30 September 2010 16:33:01 UTC