- From: John Hax <johnhax@gmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 03:00:28 +0800
- To: Zi Bin Cheah <zibin@opera.com>
- Cc: Yuan Chao <yuanchao@gmail.com>, Ethan Chen <chief@ethantw.net>, いゅHTML5贾穦ML <public-html-ig-zh@w3.org>, "KangHao Lu (Kenny)" <kennyluck@csail.mit.edu>
- Message-ID: <AANLkTina9KZ+hF-Vjc6d4F+hNzuVf0JZ-acharK-4dre@mail.gmail.com>
我也赞同,u的问题太多,还是b比较靠谱。 当然HTML标签的名字其实都含有西方习惯(如b源自bold,而中文专名号和bold没啥关系,又如hr的原意是水平分割,可是对于竖排文本当然应该是垂直分割),这事儿也是没办法的。 2010/10/1 Zi Bin Cheah <zibin@opera.com> > > On Sep 30, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Yuan Chao wrote: > > 2010/9/30 Ethan Chen <chief@ethantw.net> >> >> 最後一項是讓相鄰兩專名底下的專名號不相連,@個作法有點問題,最好的方式如下圖,文字間沒有任何間隔,底線卻有: >> >> @張圖是 Yahoo 注音輸入法的標詞功能,方便我們選字用的。我覺得@應該是瀏覽器實作 underline 的問題,Yahoo >> 做得出來瀏覽器也該做得出來。是不是有列入標準的可能呢? >> > > > 几种可能性 > > 1。用 <b> > Ethan提到<b>比<mark>更合适,因为mark带有强调作用 > > 2。新标签 > 大家是否知道日韩那边有没有这样的请求? > > 更简单的问以下,大家觉得网上使用的可能性会多吗?还是书名号使用究竟还是边缘的case? > > > > @點很有意義,標專名號的目的,就是要幫助分辨名詞斷詞的部份。英文的word是靠空白間隔, >> 漢字就得靠「經驗」跟標點符號了。要是拿CSS來做,可以靠增加字間距的方式? >> 我也覺得還是應該要列入標準當中。 >> >> 所以另一個討論串中,拿空白來分隔英文,其實是以西文的思維來處理? >> (個人也是偏好目前辦公室軟體的做法) >> >> 同时请教一下,现在标点符号的标准用法是ruby吗? >>> >> 你指的是「文字標註音標」嗎? >> @是指用ruby畫專名號跟書名號嗎? >> > > 只是突然想到ruby负责标符号,那它也能不能标书名号?不过又好象没有牵扯到。。。 > > > >> >> >> 在 Sep 30, 2010 6:26 PM 時, Zi Bin Cheah 寫到: >> >> 专名号在大马算是没人用,大陆那边应该也少用。可能港台教科书有用,电纸书盛行也可能会推动使用率。 >>> >>> Ian拒绝用<u>语义化来用专名号其实我本人觉得是对的。试想想现在大家脑子里一看到<U>就想到underline, >>> 重新教育有多难,而且大家都会继续滥用。 >>> >>> 当然这没有解决专名号的需求。我想到的一个方法是用mark然后用CSS去underline它。不晓得这个方法实际吗? >>> >>> 同时请教一下,现在标点符号的标准用法是ruby吗? >>> >>> On Sep 30, 2010, at 1:46 AM, KangHao Lu (Kenny) wrote: >>> >>> 說明一下、、@算是對之前專名號的討論[1]做的回應,總之就是希望HTML5標準書至少不會把<u>放在「不合標準的標籤」[2] >>>> 而至少放在「將被拋棄但是合標準」[3]。很抱歉沒先在@個郵件群組得到共識,但是從10/1開始回報標準錯誤的過程會進入下一個階段所以我至少希望@個議題在@個時候被拿出來討論一下。我目前的看法是 >>>> >>>> - 加一個新標籤(像是<pn>之類的)真的很不可能 >>>> - 用<a>或<a href>(屬性沒值)是一種濫用 >>>> - <span class="pn"> 還是有點太長了 >>>> - >>>> Mike跟我講說<i>留下來的很大原因是因為西方會用斜體標船名,總不能發明一個<ship>吧。所以<u>是比較實在的,而且也不少人支持把<u>拿回來。 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 總之@個議題處理的狀況都會CC到@個列表啦,如果@個提案被回絕了大家也多多瞭解@個HTML5編輯Ian >>>> Hickson是怎麼做事的吧。議題回報裡我也提到了之前的討論(三年前了、、),有些為什麼<u>不見了但是<b><i>回來了的原因(主要就是<u>跟超連結的混亂問題)。不過那時候都沒什麼人提到專名號所以@次就順便提了一提啦! >>>> >>>> 歡迎大家用HTML5 Bug Tracker的時候CC到@邊來。 >>>> >>>> 有空再多介紹一些HTML5的名人吧(像是Bug裡提到的Apple的Maciej[5]) >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-zh/2010Aug/threadl#msg184 >>>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features >>>> [3] >>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features >>>> [4] >>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268 >>>> [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Stachowiak >>>> >>>> 此致 >>>> >>>> Kenny >>>> >>>> On 2010/09/30, at 8:06, bugzilla@jessica.w3.org wrote: >>>> >>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10838 >>>>> >>>>> Summary: Make <u> conforming. >>>>> Product: HTML WG >>>>> Version: unspecified >>>>> Platform: PC >>>>> URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but- >>>>> conforming-features >>>>> OS/Version: All >>>>> Status: NEW >>>>> Severity: major >>>>> Priority: P3 >>>>> Component: HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) >>>>> AssignedTo: ian@hixie.ch >>>>> ReportedBy: kennyluck@w3.org >>>>> QAContact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org >>>>> CC: mike@w3.org, public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org, >>>>> public-html@w3.org, public-i18n-cjk@w3.org, >>>>> public-html-ig-zh@w3.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This was discussed in a long thread[1] three years ago. There was no >>>>> consensus >>>>> and no response from the editor, but since some people like Maciej >>>>> think we can >>>>> make <u> at least conforming[2], I would like to raise this bug to >>>>> catch the >>>>> editor's attention. >>>>> >>>>> Proper name mark, in Chinese [3] is a use case that was slightly >>>>> mentioned in >>>>> the thread (see also an example picture[4]). The purpose of this mark >>>>> is to >>>>> highlight *every* proper noun in some text to help the reader break >>>>> words, >>>>> cause Chinese people don't use spaces for word breaking. Although it is >>>>> no >>>>> longer popular recently, proper name mark is still used in some >>>>> textbooks in >>>>> Taiwan (esp. children's Chinese textbook) and Hong Kong. Because the >>>>> purpose >>>>> and frequency of using "proper name mark" in a piece of text is similar >>>>> to code >>>>> highlighting, I personally don't think it's appropriate to use <mark> >>>>> for this >>>>> purpose since the spec says "This (<mark>) is separate from syntax >>>>> highlighting, for which span is more appropriate." But then <span >>>>> class="pn"> >>>>> is probably too long. This is not yet a very prevalent use case because >>>>> proper >>>>> name marks are often used in combination with vertical text and >>>>> vertical text >>>>> is not yet popular on the Web. >>>>> >>>>> While I do strongly agree that an underlined text which is not a >>>>> hyperlink >>>>> confuses the user in his/her browsing experience, there are HTML user >>>>> agents >>>>> for which browsing the Web isn't the main purpose and hence the user >>>>> might not >>>>> get confused. e-book readers are such examles. >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268 >>>>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0307 >>>>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name_mark >>>>> [4] http://www.go8.com.tw/files/4168%200004.jpg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Configure bugmail: >>>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/userprefs.cgi?tab=email >>>>> ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- >>>>> You are on the CC list for the bug. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Zi Bin Cheah / 谢子斌 >>> >>> Web Evangelist >>> / Developer Relations / Site Compatibility / Products Group / >>> >>> Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway >>> + 47 23 69 25 81 / twitter: zibin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Yuan Chao >> > > Regards, > > Zi Bin Cheah / 谢子斌 > > Web Evangelist > / Developer Relations / Site Compatibility / Products Group / > > Opera Software ASA, Oslo, Norway > + 47 23 69 25 81 / twitter: zibin > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Received on Thursday, 30 September 2010 19:06:50 UTC