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Re: ARIA use in HTML other than for accessibility.

From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 12:19:46 +0100
Message-ID: <CA+ri+VkwQz3Og+xUGFwW3PQCBSV1WWp3t0j53aagJsrNH+esSg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Cc: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "W3C WAI Protocols & Formats" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
Hi Rich,

thanks for your reply, I think we may be talking at odds here,
because I was not specific enough:

I don't see a problem with other technologies making use of the information
provided via ARIA (for accessibility purposes), for more general purposes,
but the addition of ARIA semantics by developers should not be *driven* by
use cases other than for adding useful information about the UI to directly
aid user interaction.

Thus adding ARIA to HTML for Semantic Web purposes is a paradigm that needs
to be be actively discouraged. For example use of ARIA semantics to add
metadata for RDF processing purposes.

--

Regards

SteveF
HTML 5.1 <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>

On 1 May 2015 at 11:50, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Where my head is at on this is that people should look at ARIA semantics
> to drive the user experience. At its core ARIA defines semantics for UI
> (structural, state, and properties). At IBM we have already begun to use it
> to drive the look  of user experiences. When we have meetings with IBM
> designers we are now having semantic discussions for which we can both talk
> on the same level and build user experiences that are meaningful. If we
> start with ARIA semantics we can use it to drive the style of the UI and
> reducing the amount of JavaScript. This is becoming increasingly important
> for mobile.
>
> We are also crossing the line between what is for accessibility and what
> is not. ARIA is becoming a curb cut for user experiences. We are looking at
> digital semantics for digital books, drawings, etc. If we are successful
> with ARIA semantics for books we can use it to drive UIs like every user
> being able to say: "Go to the glossary."
>
> This is what I mean by it is being used by more than just accessibility.
>
>
>
> Rich
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Steve Faulkner ---05/01/2015 04:13:34
> AM---Note: have ccd HTML a11y taskforce and PF, but please repl]Steve
> Faulkner ---05/01/2015 04:13:34 AM---Note: have ccd HTML a11y taskforce and
> PF, but please reply to HTML WG list so a broader audience ca
>
> From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
> To: HTMLWG WG <public-html@w3.org>
> Cc: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, "W3C WAI
> Protocols & Formats" <public-pfwg@w3.org>
> Date: 05/01/2015 04:13 AM
> Subject: ARIA use in HTML other than for accessibility.
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Note: have ccd HTML a11y taskforce and PF, but please reply to HTML WG
> list so a broader audience can read and contribute.
>
> Hi all,
>
> There is some discussion  going on currently about the uses of ARIA for
> cases other than accessibility.
>
> My understanding in the context of HTML is that ARIA is to be used to
> allow web developers to assign semantics to HTML content in order to make
> it understandable to assistive technology users. And that it should only be
> used when HTML features do not have this information baked in or developers
> are building custom UI. Hence my formulation of the First [informative]
> rule of ARIA [1] and the conformance requirements on ARIA in HTML [4]
>
> The ARIA 1.1 spec appears to align with this view:
>
>    These semantics are designed to allow an author to properly convey
>    user interface behaviors and structural information to assistive
>    technologies in document-level markup.
>
>
>  So I was somewhat surprised to see a tweet [3] yesterday from Rich
> Schwerdtfeger:
>
>    ARIA is providing more semantics than host languages and it is
>    growing. Developers and Designers would be foolish to limit its use to
>    a11y.
>
>
>
> I see problems arising from the use of ARIA in HTML for purposes other
> than UI accessibility including:
>
> * Conflict with native HTML accessibility semantics
> * Unnecessary cruft build up in the corpus of HTML documents due to its
> extended use.
> * Dilution of its relationship to accessibility APIs semantics and
> increase in complexity of an already complex vocabulary.
>
> I would really think there is a need for this stuff to be more thoroughly
> discussed, especially in relation to ARIA use in HTML as a host language.
>
> Review at your leasure, comment at will.
>
> [1] *http://w3c* <http://w3c/>.
> github.io/aria-in-html/#first-rule-of-aria-use
> [2] http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#h-abstract
> [3] https://*twitter.com/* <http://twitter.com/>
> rschwer/status/593758137989013504
> [4] *http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/* <http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> *HTML 5.1* <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/>
>
>


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Received on Friday, 1 May 2015 11:20:54 UTC

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