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Re: SKOS language mapping en-de-fr-it discussion and proposal

From: Fabio Ricci <fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 12:10:35 +0200
Message-ID: <53BA721B.7090907@semweb.ch>
To: Thomas Francart <thomas.francart@sparna.fr>
CC: Christophe Dupriez <dupriez@destin.be>, SKOS <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Dear Thomas / all

thank you very much for all you input and your link to
http://francart.fr/traduction-francaise-skos/!  Version 3 has begun.

I'd like to allow myself to structure as follows:

"Labels":
"Etiquette" is even in the corresponding Italian something to find
"usually" on a cloth giving the price, here nothing prevent me to state
that an Italian  "etichetta" comes very close to "label" (indeed they
are the same thing as labels, adding a denotation to an object - and if
we see a concept as an object ...). Concerning ISO norms (where they do
essentially the same as in SKOS) e.g.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_14000 people speak in Italian of
"etichetta/etichette" and of "etichettatura". On a French ISO page we
find e.g. in http://www.iso.org/iso/fr/catalogue_detail?csnumber=34425
people speaking as well of "étiquettes" or "étiquettage".  So despite
the very valid hints so far I feel still quite unsure and need advice.
What is the procedure to make "libellè" or "étiquette" into the official
French SKOS translation?

"Concept schemes":
Concerning skos:conceptScheme and skos:inScheme (we have to consider
both - I think) - I find the description "aggregation/structure de
concepts" even for english (concept aggregation / concept structure)
maybe the better way of describing what skos:conceptScheme inside SKOS
should be ... Thank you very much for this suggestion. Accordingly to
that, skos:inScheme would take in French "dans l'aggregation/structure". 

"More in general":
I need to say that I am are not seeking to "improve" the English SKOS
definition nor to completely rephrase them in the languages fr-it-de but
to provide conceptually valid SKOS translations which rely on the
original SKOS document. Doing this I have to risk using some "Anglicism"
in the national words with the benefit of "root closeness" to the
original description.

Anyone (French) adding her/his ideas here?

Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse
/Fabio Ricci/
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On 7.7.14 10:49, Thomas Francart wrote:
> Hi
>
> "étiquette" in French sounds more like "a price tag you may find
> attached to a shirt in a clothing store". I have used "libellé" to
> translate "label", and I have heard everyone around me using this term
> without complaining.
> Some other french translations suggestions can be found at
> http://francart.fr/traduction-francaise-skos/
> Some other improvement suggestions :
>
>   * "a le concept racine" : "a pour concept racine" (the former could
>     imply there is only one root, while there may be multiple)
>   * editorialNote might be better translated by "note éditoriale"
>     rather than "note rédactionnelle" (the notion of "éditorial"
>     reffering to the work people are doing to maintain the thesaurus)
>   * the notion of "match" (in broadMatch, closeMatch, etc.) is usually
>     translated in this context as "alignement" rather than
>     "correspondance" ("alignement spécifique" rather than
>     "correspondance spécifique", etc.); skos:mappingRelation would be
>     "relation d'alignement"
>   * skos:ConceptScheme might be the trickiest to translate, since
>     there is no equivalent in french of the notion of "scheme"; french
>     "schema" _sounds_ close, but clearly does not have the same
>     meaning; at least it does not disconcert french natives that know
>     the original english word "concept scheme". Semantically speaking
>     though, "aggrégation de concepts" or "structure de concepts" are
>     closer.
>
> Thanks for this work, have you considered contributing to this :
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2014Jun/0098.html
> (see following thread) ?
>
> Cheers
> Thomas
>
>
>
>
> 2014-07-05 13:40 GMT+02:00 Fabio Ricci <fabio.ricci@semweb.ch
> <mailto:fabio.ricci@semweb.ch>>:
>
>     Thank you Christophe!
>
>     Indeed I have spent quite a time on the French "label" in order to
>     match all criteria...
>     it seems that Rameau (France) speaks of "étiquettes" ("étiquettes
>     préferentielles"), but there are others speaking of "libellé"
>     (http://francart.fr/traduction-francaise-skos/). Since "libellé"
>     sounds to me (as a native italian) as a kind of past tense, I had
>     proposed and preferred "étiquette" (sounding simpler ?) - Of
>     course I would like to take the decision of a French person.
>
>     Thank you for your opinion on the other terms! Soon I will post an
>     updated doc.
>
>     @ITALIAN - Anyone who would like to give some ideas on italian?
>
>     I wish you all a nice weekend
>
>     Kind regards / Meilleures salutations / Freundliche Grüsse
>     /Fabio Ricci/
>     semweb 		
>
>     	Semantic Web Technologies · Records Management
>     Software systems · ICT coaching · ICT Projects leading 	
>
>     	
>
>     *www.semweb.ch* <http://semweb.ch>
>
>     	
>
>     	
>
>     Weinmanngasse 26
>     CH-8700 Küsnacht ZH (Switzerland)
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>     	
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>     	
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>     	
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>     +41 (076) 5281961 <tel:%2B41%C2%A0%28076%29%C2%A05281961>
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>
>     *Confidentiality Warning*: This message and any attachments are
>     intended only for the use of the intended recipients, are
>     confidential and maybe privileged. If you are not the intended
>     recipient, you are hereby notified that any review,
>     retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or
>     other use of this message and any attachments is strictly
>     prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify
>     the sender immediately by return email, and delete this message
>     and any attachments from your system. Thank you.
>
>     On 2.7.14 14:48, Christophe Dupriez wrote:
>>     Très bon travail Fabio! Très utile!
>>
>>     Some problems with accented letters in french though...
>>
>>     And also the terminological choices for french would have to be
>>     discussed:
>>
>>     "Libellé" or "étiquette" ? I prefer the 1st
>>     "Collection" et non "collecte" ("collecte" is mainly for
>>     collecting funds, garbage...)
>>     "Primaire" or "Racine" ? I prefer the 2nd. "Sommet" would be
>>     another contender... Or "Culminant"?!
>>
>>     "Relation de mappage" vs "Correspondances" (to be discussed)
>>     Related: "lié"? I think "relié" would be better.
>>
>>     Thank you very much!
>>
>>     Christophe Dupriez
>>     Twitter @ChristopheDupri
>>     Contributor to ASKOSI.org
>>
>>     Le 2/07/2014 11:08, Fabio Ricci a écrit :
>>>     Dear Antoine, dear W3C  Semantic Web Community,
>>>
>>>     http://semweb.ch started 2013 in Switzerland as a small
>>>     enterprise offering services mainly in the field of semantic web.
>>>     2014 Semantic Web Company (Vienna) and semweb LLC started a
>>>     cooperation based on SKOS services around PoolParty (c).
>>>     Works are strongly based on the SKOS model for the Swiss
>>>     audience and Switzerland speaks at least four languages.
>>>
>>>     After having studied the current SKOS standards and their
>>>     translations, I noticed that translation works are not really
>>>     homomorphic to the reference document
>>>     http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/REC-skos-reference-20090818, some
>>>     translations could be improved and some works are dated 2005 (9
>>>     years ago). Therefore I decided to issue a language mapping
>>>     document for SKOS including the four languages English, German,
>>>     French and Italian at one time (included in this post as
>>>     attachment) on the basis of the reference document. The document
>>>     is intended to be a help for all those translators which are not
>>>     native in some of the languages (...), hence finding already
>>>     some few inflection forms speeding up their translation work.
>>>     The green marked textes are my preferred vs. current ones in
>>>     black if there are any current ones.
>>>
>>>     I hope this will helpful.
>>>
>>>     Thank you very much in advance and congratulations for all your
>>>     previous and current work!
>>>
>>>     Fabio Ricci
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *
> *
> *Thomas Francart* - Sparna
> Consultant Indépendant
> Data, Sémantique, Contenus, Connaissances
> web : http://sparna.fr, blog : http://francart.fr
> Tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97
> Fax : +33 (0)9.58.16.17.14
> Skype : francartthomas


Received on Monday, 7 July 2014 10:11:02 UTC

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