- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2018 09:52:01 +0100
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <630dd8e2-1aa1-0630-dc4b-27172813129b@pjjk.co.uk>
Yes, as Stuart says, Hugh's example is to the point.
On 26/03/18 22:02, Stuart Sutton wrote:
> Hugh, I don't think you are missing the point. Phil refers to the
> "parallel" in the IMS Open Badges spec between an instance of "Badge
> Class" describing the attributes of a credential and the related
> "Assertion" class describing the attributes of specific awards of the
> badge including the identity of the those earning it. As a modeling
> issue, it also shares characteristics with Course and CourseInstance.
>
> While we decided early on that the focus here was on description of
> the credential and not on the thing awarded, we need to be mindful
> that the distinction exists and is significant. We may even find we
> want to revisit that decision before we are done. If so, then
> maintaining distinctions between properties like "offeredBy" and
> "issuedBy" could be very important.
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 10:29 AM, Hugh Paterson III
> <sil.linguist@gmail.com <mailto:sil.linguist@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> issuedBy vs. offeredBy
> The terms themselves indicate a semantics to me that seems to
> indicate that the issuedBy property appears on a credential
> already earned or awarded, whereas offering is what is currently
> offered by a granting institution. The University of Nottingham
> may stop offering a Ph.D in Electrical Engineering. Earners of
> Ph.D's have an issuedby property, where as an aggregation of
> current offerings of Ph.Ds in Electrical Engineering would not
> include The University of Nottingham.
>
> Am I missing the point of the question at hand?
> - Hugh
>
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Phil Barker
> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> I think it depends on whether the distinction between offering
> and issuing is going to be important.
>
> For example a credential might be offered by several
> organizations and it might be important to know which of those
> had issued a specific instance. That's a bit hypothetical, I
> have no strong feel for how often such a distinction would
> matter in practice (or even if it really happens).
>
> issuedBy also has the merit of being simpler, more direct.
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 26/03/18 16:29, Vicki Tardif wrote:
>> I think using "offers" works for the use case of
>> understanding which organizations offer a particular
>> credential, but does this work as well for the eventual use
>> case of "Person X earned Credential Y from Organization Z"?
>>
>> If "issuedBy" works better for the latter, maybe we should
>> also use it for this use case.
>>
>> - Vicki
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Phil Barker
>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Looking through the use cases
>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Name_search_for_credentialing_organization>
>> for Educational Occupational Credentials in schema.org
>> <http://schema.org>, I see we have one for
>>
>>>
>>> Name search for credentialing organization
>>>
>>> It should be possible to search and find credentials by
>>> the name of the credentialing organization.
>>>
>>> *Requires:*ability to show relationship between
>>> educational / occupational credential objects and
>>> descriptions or representations of credentialling
>>> organization
>>>
>> Also,
>>
>>>
>>> Find credentialing organization[edit
>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/index.php?title=Use_Cases&action=edit§ion=26>]
>>>
>>> Having identified a credential, it should be possible to
>>> find the credentialing organization.
>>>
>> I think we have already solved these back when we
>> discussed cost of a credential. We solved this in part by
>> use of the the schema.org <http://schema.org> offers
>> property and Offer type. As I think Richard pointed out
>> at the time, the Offer type has a property 'offeredBy' so
>> we can say:
>>
>> {
>> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>> "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
>> "url" :"https://example.org/ecocred" <https://example.org/ecocred>,
>> "name": "Example",
>> "offers": {
>> "@type": "Offer",
>> "offeredBy" : {
>> "@type": "Organization",
>> "name": "Example org",
>> "url":"https://example.org/" <https://example.org/>
>> }
>> }
>> }
>>
>> The Example credential is offered by Example.org.
>>
>> Does anyone think this is not sufficient to meet the use
>> case?
>>
>> An alternative is to co-opt the issuedBy
>> <http://schema.org/issuedBy> property from Permit
>> <http://schema.org/Permit>. But one important aspect of
>> our work here is that we are dealing /primarily/ with the
>> offer of a Credential, not a claim that someone has
>> earned one. That is, BadgeClass rather than Assertions if
>> you appreciate a parallel with Open Badges. So offeredBy
>> seems the better fit to me.
>>
>> There is a note in the use cases that "there may be
>> several different significant types of relationship
>> between credentials and organizations". We have a
>> separate use case for quality assurance that would cover
>> accreditation, recognition etc., of the credentialing
>> organization and which we can discuss later.
>>
>> Regards, Phil
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to
>> enhance learning; information systems for education.
>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
>> education technology.
>>
>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private
>> limited company, number SC569282.
>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
>> registered in England number OC399090
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
> learning; information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
> education technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
> company, number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
> registered in England number OC399090
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Stuart A. Sutton, Metadata Consultant
> Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Washington
> Information School
> Email: stuartasutton@gmail.com <mailto:stuartasutton@gmail.com>
> Skype: sasutton
>
>
--
Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
information systems for education.
CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
number SC569282.
CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
England number OC399090
Received on Tuesday, 27 March 2018 08:52:30 UTC