- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 10:24:08 +0000
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <4a9c57af-685e-a724-1a88-91c1670c4b0a@pjjk.co.uk>
I have written up the outcome of this discussion on the wiki
<https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Language_of_a_credential_and_related_entities>
[1]
Phil
[1]
https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Language_of_a_credential_and_related_entities
On 13/03/18 17:59, Phil Barker wrote:
>
> Thanks Fritz. I think we are also mixing in some aspects of the use
> cases we have for coverage (i.e. geographic area or jurisdiction for
> which the credential is valid) and transfer value. But we should be
> able to describe your wife in JSON-LD by the end of this :)
>
> Phil
>
>
> On 13/03/18 17:16, Fritz Ray wrote:
>> We're mixing some notions of "Awarded Credential" data with "Abstract
>> Credential" data, but yes... and additionally: { "@context":
>> "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type":
>> "EducationalOccupationalCredential", "@id":
>> "http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
>> "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing", "inLanguage": "zh", "@reverse": {
>> "educationalCredentialAwarded": { "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type": "Course",
>> "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
>> "inLanguage": "zh"
>> }
>> }
>> "educationalCredentialAwarded": { "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@id":"http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
>> } <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
>> }
>> { "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type":
>> "EducationalOccupationalCredential", "@id":
>> "http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
>> "name": "License to practice Nursing", "inLanguage": "en-US" }
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk
>> <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Fritz, does this work for you?
>>
>> {
>> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>> "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
>> "@id":"http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
>> "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing",
>> "@reverse": {
>> "educationalCredentialAwarded": {
>> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>> "@type": "Course",
>> "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
>> "inLanguage": "zh"
>> }
>> }
>> }
>>
>>
>> On 13/03/18 16:53, Fritz Ray wrote:
>>> I can tell you my wife's story to help illustrate this.
>>>
>>> So, my wife has a nursing degree in China. She still thinks
>>> about quite a bit of nursing in her head in Chinese, though she
>>> was allowed (via a special program) to get licensed in the state
>>> of New Mexico in the US, and from New Mexico to the state of
>>> Washington.
>>>
>>> She has not been allowed to get licensed in the State of Oregon,
>>> because Oregon doesn't recognize transfers from Washington or
>>> New Mexico, and does not recognize foreign degrees unless they
>>> go through the international degree transfer system... As her
>>> school in China has closed, this is no longer possible.
>>>
>>> So, she has a Chinese nursing degree, nursing competencies in
>>> Chinese, though she applies them in the US. She also has an
>>> expired license in New Mexico and a current license in
>>> Washington. She has gained quite a number of nursing
>>> competencies in English through her experience and employment
>>> history.
>>>
>>> To get a nursing license in Oregon, she would need a US
>>> recognized nursing degree, presumably taught in English. This
>>> requires English taught prereqs (like writing classes and math
>>> classes).
>>>
>>> To recognize her Chinese degree, all the materials about that
>>> degree would need to be translated to English. This means there
>>> would be English data (the translation) of a Chinese degree
>>> about Nursing (thought about in Chinese).
>>>
>>> To sum up, I agree that there's a need for a field that
>>> indicates the primary language of the material covered by the
>>> degree, distinct from the language of the data used to describe
>>> the degree. (Langstrings should cover the latter).
>>>
>>> inLanguage covers this use case nicely.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Hugh Paterson III
>>> <sil.linguist@gmail.com <mailto:sil.linguist@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Phil,
>>>
>>> I appreciate this discussion. I'm trying to get my head
>>> around an economy of credentials. A German (or any company
>>> where the corporate culture has a monolingual language
>>> component) would be looking for someone with a certain set
>>> of credentials. Would such a company's HR department limit
>>> their search to credentialing organizations that only offer
>>> "German" credentials? Rather than looking for a universal
>>> set of "Credentials" and then also for a competency or
>>> credential of "German". Take the case of a materials chemist
>>> for working in the solar manufacturing industry. Let's
>>> assume that a German Company wants to fill a new opening.
>>> They start their recruitment search. The team they want to
>>> recruit for will be German speaking team. Where do they
>>> start their search?
>>>
>>> - Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:30 AM, Phil Barker
>>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Hugh
>>>
>>> On 12/03/18 17:19, Hugh Paterson III wrote:
>>>> I have a use case for competency/credential discovery.
>>>>
>>>> I want to find pilots who not only speak German as a
>>>> competency, or received a German Federal aviation
>>>> credential, but trained for their Aviation certificates
>>>> using the German language.
>>>> So more broadly this is a use case where the knowledge
>>>> was expressed in a language.
>>>
>>> I think that there are two options from the existing use
>>> cases that would cover this type of requirement:
>>> a, we consider it as a competence just like any other,
>>> and express it as such; or
>>> b, we say it is a requirement that is not really a
>>> competence, for which we have the eligibility
>>> requirements
>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Eligibility_requirements>
>>> use case
>>>
>>> The demonstrated ability to express knowledge in a given
>>> language could be case (a); to have been undertaken
>>> aviation training in the medium of German could be case (b).
>>>
>>>>
>>>> If we take this to the case of math skills, or the
>>>> completion of some Algebra course, I want to know what
>>>> language the course was taught in.
>>>
>>> As was the case when we discussed costs, I think we need
>>> to be careful to distinguish between the Credential,
>>> Learning Opportunities that can lead to the credential,
>>> and Assessments that must be passed before the
>>> credential is awarded.
>>>>
>>>> have we covered this yet as a use case in
>>>> :https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases
>>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases>
>>>>
>>>> 1. The text book for a maths course in German could use
>>>> the LRMI language attribute.
>>>>
>>>> o inLanguage schema.org/Language
>>>> <http://schema.org/Language> The primary
>>>> language of the resource.
>>>>
>>> Agreed. We can specify the language of learning
>>> resources (schema:CreativeWork) that are relevant to the
>>> credential
>>>
>>>> 2. The maths course was taught in German could be
>>>> described by ______________.
>>> A schema:Course is a CreativeWork, and a CourseInstance
>>> is an Event, so we can use the inLanguage property for
>>> these as well.
>>>
>>>> 3. The Credential offered seems to be agnostic to
>>>> language considerations as it is just a credential
>>>> unless we are using a language tag to describe the
>>>> language used in the credential's essence.
>>> Sure, if Credential is a type of CreativeWork we have
>>> various ways of talking about its language,
>>> translations, and instances/embodiments
>>> <http://schema.org/workExample> of it.
>>>
>>>> 4. Any given competency may have an equivalent in
>>>> another schema but be expressed in another natural
>>>> language. (That is, there may be a German standard for
>>>> competencies that has been aligned to an English
>>>> standard for competencies, but what is missing seems to
>>>> be the element that the competency was expressed in a
>>>> particular natural language.)
>>>>
>>> There is no way of expressing competences in schema.org
>>> <http://schema.org> at the moment. As Stuart said,
>>> there have been suggestions about how CategoryCode /
>>> DefinedTerm could be used, and how it could be extended
>>> into something a little bit more SKOS-like. A
>>> DefinedTerm would be part of a DefinedTermSet, which is
>>> a subtype of CreativeWork. So if they were used as the
>>> basis for describing competencies and competence
>>> frameworks, then the language of a Competence Framework
>>> could be provided. I am inclined to think that the
>>> detailed modeling of competencies is a rabbit hole that
>>> we shouldn't go too far down.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to
>>> enhance learning; information systems for education.
>>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
>>> education technology.
>>>
>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private
>>> limited company, number SC569282.
>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
>>> registered in England number OC399090
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
>> learning; information systems for education.
>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
>> technology.
>>
>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
>> company, number SC569282.
>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered
>> in England number OC399090
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
> information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
> number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
> England number OC399090
>
--
Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
information systems for education.
CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
number SC569282.
CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
England number OC399090
Received on Monday, 19 March 2018 10:24:36 UTC