- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:59:21 +0000
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <44a31f72-ec7b-3ad7-3688-7783de4d6dba@pjjk.co.uk>
Thanks Fritz. I think we are also mixing in some aspects of the use
cases we have for coverage (i.e. geographic area or jurisdiction for
which the credential is valid) and transfer value. But we should be able
to describe your wife in JSON-LD by the end of this :)
Phil
On 13/03/18 17:16, Fritz Ray wrote:
> We're mixing some notions of "Awarded Credential" data with "Abstract
> Credential" data, but yes... and additionally: { "@context":
> "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type":
> "EducationalOccupationalCredential", "@id":
> "http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
> "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing", "inLanguage": "zh", "@reverse": {
> "educationalCredentialAwarded": { "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type": "Course",
> "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
> "inLanguage": "zh"
> }
> }
> "educationalCredentialAwarded": { "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@id":"http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
> } <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
> }
> { "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>, "@type":
> "EducationalOccupationalCredential", "@id":
> "http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
> "name": "License to practice Nursing", "inLanguage": "en-US" }
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk
> <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> Fritz, does this work for you?
>
> {
> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
> "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
> "@id":"http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
> "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing",
> "@reverse": {
> "educationalCredentialAwarded": {
> "@context":"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
> "@type": "Course",
> "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
> "inLanguage": "zh"
> }
> }
> }
>
>
> On 13/03/18 16:53, Fritz Ray wrote:
>> I can tell you my wife's story to help illustrate this.
>>
>> So, my wife has a nursing degree in China. She still thinks about
>> quite a bit of nursing in her head in Chinese, though she was
>> allowed (via a special program) to get licensed in the state of
>> New Mexico in the US, and from New Mexico to the state of
>> Washington.
>>
>> She has not been allowed to get licensed in the State of Oregon,
>> because Oregon doesn't recognize transfers from Washington or New
>> Mexico, and does not recognize foreign degrees unless they go
>> through the international degree transfer system... As her school
>> in China has closed, this is no longer possible.
>>
>> So, she has a Chinese nursing degree, nursing competencies in
>> Chinese, though she applies them in the US. She also has an
>> expired license in New Mexico and a current license in
>> Washington. She has gained quite a number of nursing competencies
>> in English through her experience and employment history.
>>
>> To get a nursing license in Oregon, she would need a US
>> recognized nursing degree, presumably taught in English. This
>> requires English taught prereqs (like writing classes and math
>> classes).
>>
>> To recognize her Chinese degree, all the materials about that
>> degree would need to be translated to English. This means there
>> would be English data (the translation) of a Chinese degree about
>> Nursing (thought about in Chinese).
>>
>> To sum up, I agree that there's a need for a field that indicates
>> the primary language of the material covered by the degree,
>> distinct from the language of the data used to describe the
>> degree. (Langstrings should cover the latter).
>>
>> inLanguage covers this use case nicely.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Hugh Paterson III
>> <sil.linguist@gmail.com <mailto:sil.linguist@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Phil,
>>
>> I appreciate this discussion. I'm trying to get my head
>> around an economy of credentials. A German (or any company
>> where the corporate culture has a monolingual language
>> component) would be looking for someone with a certain set of
>> credentials. Would such a company's HR department limit their
>> search to credentialing organizations that only offer
>> "German" credentials? Rather than looking for a universal set
>> of "Credentials" and then also for a competency or credential
>> of "German". Take the case of a materials chemist for working
>> in the solar manufacturing industry. Let's assume that a
>> German Company wants to fill a new opening. They start their
>> recruitment search. The team they want to recruit for will be
>> German speaking team. Where do they start their search?
>>
>> - Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:30 AM, Phil Barker
>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Hugh
>>
>> On 12/03/18 17:19, Hugh Paterson III wrote:
>>> I have a use case for competency/credential discovery.
>>>
>>> I want to find pilots who not only speak German as a
>>> competency, or received a German Federal aviation
>>> credential, but trained for their Aviation certificates
>>> using the German language.
>>> So more broadly this is a use case where the knowledge
>>> was expressed in a language.
>>
>> I think that there are two options from the existing use
>> cases that would cover this type of requirement:
>> a, we consider it as a competence just like any other,
>> and express it as such; or
>> b, we say it is a requirement that is not really a
>> competence, for which we have the eligibility
>> requirements
>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Eligibility_requirements>
>> use case
>>
>> The demonstrated ability to express knowledge in a given
>> language could be case (a); to have been undertaken
>> aviation training in the medium of German could be case (b).
>>
>>>
>>> If we take this to the case of math skills, or the
>>> completion of some Algebra course, I want to know what
>>> language the course was taught in.
>>
>> As was the case when we discussed costs, I think we need
>> to be careful to distinguish between the Credential,
>> Learning Opportunities that can lead to the credential,
>> and Assessments that must be passed before the credential
>> is awarded.
>>>
>>> have we covered this yet as a use case in
>>> :https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases
>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases>
>>>
>>> 1. The text book for a maths course in German could use
>>> the LRMI language attribute.
>>>
>>> o inLanguage schema.org/Language
>>> <http://schema.org/Language> The primary
>>> language of the resource.
>>>
>> Agreed. We can specify the language of learning resources
>> (schema:CreativeWork) that are relevant to the credential
>>
>>> 2. The maths course was taught in German could be
>>> described by ______________.
>> A schema:Course is a CreativeWork, and a CourseInstance
>> is an Event, so we can use the inLanguage property for
>> these as well.
>>
>>> 3. The Credential offered seems to be agnostic to
>>> language considerations as it is just a credential
>>> unless we are using a language tag to describe the
>>> language used in the credential's essence.
>> Sure, if Credential is a type of CreativeWork we have
>> various ways of talking about its language, translations,
>> and instances/embodiments <http://schema.org/workExample>
>> of it.
>>
>>> 4. Any given competency may have an equivalent in
>>> another schema but be expressed in another natural
>>> language. (That is, there may be a German standard for
>>> competencies that has been aligned to an English
>>> standard for competencies, but what is missing seems to
>>> be the element that the competency was expressed in a
>>> particular natural language.)
>>>
>> There is no way of expressing competences in schema.org
>> <http://schema.org> at the moment. As Stuart said, there
>> have been suggestions about how CategoryCode /
>> DefinedTerm could be used, and how it could be extended
>> into something a little bit more SKOS-like. A DefinedTerm
>> would be part of a DefinedTermSet, which is a subtype of
>> CreativeWork. So if they were used as the basis for
>> describing competencies and competence frameworks, then
>> the language of a Competence Framework could be provided.
>> I am inclined to think that the detailed modeling of
>> competencies is a rabbit hole that we shouldn't go too
>> far down.
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to
>> enhance learning; information systems for education.
>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
>> education technology.
>>
>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private
>> limited company, number SC569282.
>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
>> registered in England number OC399090
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
> learning; information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
> company, number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered
> in England number OC399090
>
>
--
Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
information systems for education.
CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
number SC569282.
CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
England number OC399090
Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2018 17:59:48 UTC