Re: Language in eocred

We're mixing some notions of "Awarded Credential" data with "Abstract
Credential" data, but yes... and additionally:

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
  "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
  "@id": "http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
  "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing",
  "inLanguage": "zh",  "@reverse": {
    "educationalCredentialAwarded": {      "@context":
"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,      "@type": "Course",
      "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
      "inLanguage": "zh"
    }
  }
  "educationalCredentialAwarded": {      "@context":
"http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,      "@id":
"http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
} <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>
}

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
  "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
  "@id": "http://example.state.wa.us/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
  "name": "License to practice Nursing",
  "inLanguage": "en-US"
}



On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:08 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
wrote:

> Fritz, does this work for you?
>
> {
>   "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>   "@type": "EducationalOccupationalCredential",
>   "@id": "http://example.org.cn/Nursing" <http://example.org.cn/Nursing>,
>   "name": "Undergraduate degree in nursing",
>   "@reverse": {
>     "educationalCredentialAwarded": {
>       "@context": "http://schema.org/" <http://schema.org/>,
>       "@type": "Course",
>       "name": "Programme of study for nursing",
>       "inLanguage": "zh"
>     }
>   }
> }
>
>
> On 13/03/18 16:53, Fritz Ray wrote:
>
> I can tell you my wife's story to help illustrate this.
>
> So, my wife has a nursing degree in China. She still thinks about quite a
> bit of nursing in her head in Chinese, though she was allowed (via a
> special program) to get licensed in the state of New Mexico in the US, and
> from New Mexico to the state of Washington.
>
> She has not been allowed to get licensed in the State of Oregon, because
> Oregon doesn't recognize transfers from Washington or New Mexico, and does
> not recognize foreign degrees unless they go through the international
> degree transfer system... As her school in China has closed, this is no
> longer possible.
>
> So, she has a Chinese nursing degree, nursing competencies in Chinese,
> though she applies them in the US. She also has an expired license in New
> Mexico and a current license in Washington. She has gained quite a number
> of nursing competencies in English through her experience and employment
> history.
>
> To get a nursing license in Oregon, she would need a US recognized nursing
> degree, presumably taught in English. This requires English taught prereqs
> (like writing classes and math classes).
>
> To recognize her Chinese degree, all the materials about that degree would
> need to be translated to English. This means there would be English data
> (the translation) of a Chinese degree about Nursing (thought about in
> Chinese).
>
> To sum up, I agree that there's a need for a field that indicates the
> primary language of the material covered by the degree, distinct from the
> language of the data used to describe the degree. (Langstrings should cover
> the latter).
>
> inLanguage covers this use case nicely.
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Hugh Paterson III <sil.linguist@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>>
>> I appreciate this discussion. I'm trying to get my head around an economy
>> of credentials. A German (or any company where the corporate culture has a
>> monolingual language component) would be looking for someone with a certain
>> set of credentials. Would such a company's HR department limit their search
>> to credentialing organizations that only offer "German" credentials? Rather
>> than looking for a universal set of "Credentials" and then also for a
>> competency or credential of "German". Take the case of a materials chemist
>> for working in the solar manufacturing industry. Let's assume that a German
>> Company wants to fill a new opening. They start their recruitment search.
>> The team they want to recruit for will be German speaking team. Where do
>> they start their search?
>>
>> - Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:30 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Hugh
>>> On 12/03/18 17:19, Hugh Paterson III wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a use case for competency/credential discovery.
>>>
>>> I want to find pilots who not only speak German as a competency, or
>>> received a German Federal aviation credential, but trained for their
>>> Aviation certificates using the German language.
>>>
>>> So more broadly this is a use case where the knowledge was expressed in
>>> a language.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think that there are two options from the existing use cases that
>>> would cover this type of requirement:
>>> a, we consider it as a competence just like any other, and express it as
>>> such; or
>>> b, we say it is a requirement that is not really a competence, for which
>>> we have the eligibility requirements
>>> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases#Eligibility_requirements>
>>> use case
>>>
>>> The demonstrated ability to express knowledge in a given language could
>>> be case (a); to have been undertaken aviation training in the medium of
>>> German could be case (b).
>>>
>>>
>>> If we take this to the case of math skills, or the completion of some
>>> Algebra course, I want to know what language the course was taught in.
>>>
>>>
>>> As was the case when we discussed costs, I think we need to be careful
>>> to distinguish between the Credential, Learning Opportunities that can lead
>>> to the credential, and Assessments that must be passed before the
>>> credential is awarded.
>>>
>>>
>>> have we covered this yet as a use case in :https://www.w3.org/community/
>>> eocred-schema/wiki/Use_Cases
>>>
>>> 1. The text book for a maths course in German could use the LRMI
>>> language attribute.
>>>
>>>    - inLanguage     schema.org/Language     The primary language of the
>>>       resource.
>>>
>>> Agreed. We can specify the language of learning resources
>>> (schema:CreativeWork) that are relevant to the credential
>>>
>>> 2. The maths course was taught in German could be described by
>>> ______________.
>>>
>>> A schema:Course is a CreativeWork, and a CourseInstance is an Event, so
>>> we can use the inLanguage property for these as well.
>>>
>>> 3. The Credential offered seems to be agnostic to language
>>> considerations as it is just a credential unless we are using a language
>>> tag to describe the language used in the credential's essence.
>>>
>>> Sure, if Credential is a type of CreativeWork we have various ways of
>>> talking about its language, translations, and instances/embodiments
>>> <http://schema.org/workExample> of it.
>>>
>>> 4. Any given competency may have an equivalent in another schema but be
>>> expressed in another natural language. (That is, there may be a German
>>> standard for competencies that has been aligned to an English standard for
>>> competencies, but what is missing seems to be the element that the
>>> competency was expressed in a particular natural language.)
>>>
>>> There is no way of expressing competences in schema.org at the moment.
>>> As Stuart said, there have been suggestions about how CategoryCode /
>>> DefinedTerm could be used, and how it could be extended into something a
>>> little bit more SKOS-like. A DefinedTerm would be part of a DefinedTermSet,
>>> which is a subtype of CreativeWork. So if they were used as the basis for
>>> describing competencies and competence frameworks, then the language of a
>>> Competence Framework could be provided. I am inclined to think that the
>>> detailed modeling of competencies is a rabbit hole that we shouldn't go too
>>> far down.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
>>> information systems for education.
>>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
>>> number SC569282.
>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
>>> England number OC399090
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
> information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
> number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
> England number OC399090
>