- From: Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:50:16 +0000
- To: public-eocred-schema@w3.org
- Message-ID: <dbe78476-0813-d696-3412-c3565c22e28f@pjjk.co.uk>
Thanks Stuart,
I have updated the draft proposal
<https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/User:Philbarker/Draft:Competencies_for_credential>
to include DefinedTerm in the range of competencyRequired.
I have also added an example of it being used. See the wiki for the full
example, but the JSON-LD looks like
1. {
2. "@context":"http://schema.org",
3. "@type":"EducationalOccupationalCredential",
4. "name":"HNC Facilities Management",
5. "competencyRequired":{
6. "@type":"DefinedTerm",
7. "termCode":"ASTFM401",
8. "name":"Understand facilities management and its place in the
organisation",
9. "url":"https://www.ukstandards.org.uk/PublishedNos/ASTFM401.pdf",
10. "inDefinedTermSet":"https://www.ukstandards.org.uk/"
11. }
12. }
How does that look to you all?
Phil
On 12/03/18 12:52, Stuart Sutton wrote:
> Phil, I was agreeing with you that DefinedTerm works in our context
> since what's needed for EducationalOccupationalCredential is the
> ability to identify a specific competency node (or array of such
> nodes) in a specific framework with a competencyRequired property.
> With my comment about not being 'ideal', I was thinking about a
> context in which competency frameworks themselves were described on
> the Web using schema--i.e., the "structured data type
> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/index.php?title=User:Philbarker/Draft:Competencies_for_credential>"
> you mention...a push toward SKOS-land.
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:17 AM, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk
> <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> OK, now I'm talking to the right forum...
>
> On 12/03/18 11:38, Phil Barker wrote:
>> [This was Stuart's reply to the message I sent to the wrong list]
>>
>>
>> Phil, thanks for pushing forward.
>>
>> So, in essence, the question is how to handle referencing
>> competencies from the credential and what's on the other end of
>> rangeIncludes.
>
> Yes. Also, there's a question about how much of the work of
> defining competencies we take on here.
>
>>
>> As for the property referencing a competency, I hope we do NOT
>> use the existing educationalLevel / AlignmentObject for the
>> reasons already discussed on this list. There is a broad
>> consensus out there that defines competencies as assertions of
>> knowledge, skills, and abilities--what someone should know,
>> already knows and/or is able to do. While the pending
>> schema.org/skills <http://schema.org/skills> property could have
>> it's definition tweaked as you suggest, Phil, as noted above,
>> skills are just one kind of competency. So perhaps the tweaking
>> of the label 'skills' would make the use more inclusive of what
>> the term means across the talent pipeline--from syllabus learning
>> outcomes, through credentialing requirements to job postings and
>> HR functions.
>>
> Sadly, I suspect that it is too late to change the label that
> property seems to be moderately well used. I would be happy to be
> wrong about that, so if anyone thinks I am please let me know.
>
> I've drafted a proposal for competencyRequired
> <https://www.w3.org/community/eocred-schema/wiki/index.php?title=User:Philbarker/Draft:Competencies_for_credential>,
> which could live alongside skills, replace skills, or serve as a
> new definition of skills.
>
> *Name:*compentencyRequired
>
> *Definition:*Knowledge, skill, ability or personal attribute that
> must be demonstrated by a person.
>
> *Expected Range:*text, url
>
>
>> Competencies have been the focus of both ad hoc and de facto
>> standards efforts--i.e., a lot of experts have looked at the
>> description problem and there is a lot of accord across them.
>> The LRMI Task Group started out looking at developing a
>> schema.org <http://schema.org> proposal for competencies and
>> decided that the then emergent DefinedTerm proposal (see Category
>> Code in pending and discussion to change name
>> <https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1775>) would
>> basically work for this purpose. While the DefinedTerm proposal
>> isn't ideal, it's a sound base that will likely have broad use.
>> Perhaps, if useful, it could be subtyped later to provide the few
>> properties that might optimize it for competencies.
>
> Agreed. Are you suggesting that we propose DefinedTerm to be in
> the range expected for competencyRequired (until it gets subtyped
> into something more specific)? Or that we propose a subtype for
> CompetencyDefinition here?
>
> Phil
>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 7:22 AM, Phil Barker
>> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk <mailto:phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello again.
>>
>> We have several use cases relating to the competences that an
>> educational / occupational credential requires. Does adapting
>> the skills <http://pending.schema.org/skills> ('skills
>> required to fulfill this role.') from the JobPosting fulfil
>> our need?
>>
>>
>> The use case / requirements we have are
>>
>> * Individuals should be able to search for and find
>> credentials that best address competencies they wish to
>> attain.
>> * Individuals should be able to search and find credentials
>> that best match competencies that the individual posses
>> and wishes to be recognized
>> * Employers should able to search for and find credentials
>> that address the competencies required of an employee.
>> * [having identified a credential] It should be possible to
>> identify the competencies required in order to obtain a
>> credential.
>>
>> Also, knowing the competences required to earn a credential
>> would help someone find relevant learning resources /
>> opportunities, i.e. those which had similar competencies as
>> learning outcomes.
>>
>>
>> Currently, there is no means in schema.org
>> <http://schema.org> to describe competencies. There is a lot
>> of work going on in different forums around the description
>> of forums, and some of us have ideas for how the proposed
>> Defined Term type might be extended to describe competences.
>>
>> We have several choices to make.
>>
>> Firstly do we use the educationalAlignment / AlignmentObject
>> for this, or do we create a new property for 'required
>> Competence'.
>>
>> For reasons discussed when we were dealling with
>> educationalLevel, I would prefer not to use the Alignment
>> Object. We may want to discuss the similarity between the new
>> property and skills <http://pending.schema.org/skills>
>> ('skills required to fulfill this role.') from the JobPosting
>>
>> Secondly, do we try to propose properties for Competency and
>> CompetencyFramework types here or do we leave this for others
>> to do and settle for text descriptions or URL links?
>>
>> Given that Defined Term is not yet in schema, and given the
>> work going on elsewhere, I am inclined to leave defining
>> Competency and CompetencyFramework types to later, and to
>> settle for text descriptions or links.
>>
>>
>> My inclination would be to modify the existing
>> schema.org/skills <http://schema.org/skills> property by
>> tweaking the definition.
>> skills: the skills and competences required.
>> and add EducationalOccupationalCredential to its expected domain.
>>
>> We could also raise an issue about the desirability of a more
>> formal means of representing competencies.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> --
>>
>> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>.
>> http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
>> learning; information systems for education.
>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in
>> education technology.
>>
>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
>> company, number SC569282.
>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership,
>> registered in England number OC399090
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stuart A. Sutton, Metadata Consultant
>> Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Washington
>> Information School
>> Email: stuartasutton@gmail.com <mailto:stuartasutton@gmail.com>
>> Skype: sasutton
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance
> learning; information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education
> technology.
>
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited
> company, number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered
> in England number OC399090
>
>
>
>
> --
> Stuart A. Sutton, Metadata Consultant
> Associate Professor Emeritus, University of Washington
> Information School
> Email: stuartasutton@gmail.com <mailto:stuartasutton@gmail.com>
> Skype: sasutton
>
>
--
Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning;
information systems for education.
CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company,
number SC569282.
CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in
England number OC399090
Received on Tuesday, 13 March 2018 17:50:48 UTC