Re: Semantic pingback

Hi, Christophe,

(within).

On May 23, 2014, at 4:01 AM, Christophe Guéret <christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl> wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> 
> Oh! I did not notice you were behind that proposal so, see, I was not just trying to be polite saying this is a good idea ;-)

I’m happy to hear that the approach interests you.

> 
> Do you think we could generalise the PROV Pingback into something that could be a general SemanticWeb Pingback ? 
> Or would it maybe be a better idea to stick to (and maybe extend) it to recommend that pingbacks are always handled via the PROV framework ?

It seems to me that the design is minimal enough for you to reuse it wholesale in your design recommendations.
All we did was define a single HTTP @rel URI http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#pingback to indicate that a URI list can be POSTed to the Link URL.
The URIs that are posted should contain “provenance”, but everything else is “up to you”.

As you might have noticed from a previous thread, I’m a Linked Data nut.
If I was out to make a semantic pingback, I’d adopt prov pingback even if I never asserted a single PROV-O triple in the application.

Say, if I made a new void:Dataset with new URIs that link back to DBPedia, 
I could POST to http://dbpedia.org/pingback a URI for the void:Linkset that models the URI overlap between my new dataset and DBPedia.
I’m POSTing an inherent derivation of DBPedia even if I don’t explicitly model it myself (since, I might be “lazy”).

I’d also hope to find this triple in http://dbpedia.org/.well_known/void, so that I’d know where to POST, 
though it should also be included in any HTTP response from the server, too.
<http://datahub.io/dataset/dbpedia> <http://www.w3.org/ns/prov#pingback> <http://dbpedia.org/pingback> .

Hope that helps.

Regards,
Tim



> Actually, I think I would prefer this last option.
> 
> @Everyone: which BP document should pick this up ? Yaso's BP on technical considerations for commercial exploitation sounds like a good match to me but we could also consider this to be a data preservation issue and use pingbacks as a way to inform consumers when data changes or go off-line. Or maybe is there an other better match in another document ?
> 
> Regards,
> Christophe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 21 May 2014 17:20, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
> Thanks, Christophe.
> 
> Yes, we were striving for a minimal design for PROV Pingback.
> The creation of a single new HTTP rel seemed to fit the bill.
> 
> If you're interested, I just submitted a camera ready paper [1] that discusses the application of PROV Pingback.
> 
> Regards,
> Tim
> 
> [1] https://github.com/timrdf/prizms/wiki/Publication:-IPAW-2014
> 
> 
> 
> On May 21, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Christophe Guéret <christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Tim, rather interesting ! I just mailed someone from pingthesemanticweb to ask about their experience with offering this service.
>> The interesting thing I see with the proposal in this prov document is that there is no additional RPC involved as what is commonly done with other pingback services, instead it's just another resource linked from the de-referenced one. This sounds easier/simpler to put in place.
>> 
>> Christophe 
>> 
>> 
>> On 3 May 2014 18:04, Timothy Lebo <lebot@rpi.edu> wrote:
>> FWIW, there is also http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-aq/#provenance-pingback
>> 
>> -Tim
>> 
>> On May 3, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Christophe Guéret <christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl> wrote:
>> 
>>> Actions can only be assigned during the calls can't they ? ;-)
>>> 
>>> Sure, I'll take care.
>>> 
>>> Christophe
>>> 
>>> On 3 May 2014 12:21, Phil Archer <phila@w3.org> wrote:
>>> Forgive me Christophe but I think you just gave yourself an action ;-)
>>> 
>>> Phil.
>>> 
>>> On 03/05/2014 11:00, Christophe Guéret wrote:
>>> > +1 too. There used to be a pingthesemanticweb.com that provided such
>>> > service but it has been shut down. Here is a document explaining how it
>>> > worked: http://www.csee.umbc.edu/courses/691s/notes/PingSemanticWeb.pdf
>>> >
>>> > Maybe interesting to get in touch with the authors to see why they dropped
>>> > it ? If it's a fundamental problem that makes this system unusable for data
>>> > publisher we better be aware of it ;-)
>>> >
>>> > Christophe
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 2 May 2014 17:32, Ig Ibert Bittencourt <ig.ibert@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Antoine,
>>> >>
>>> >> +1
>>> >>
>>> >> This is very great and I think this is very interesting in order for
>>> >> provide to publisher the traceability of the resources.
>>> >>
>>> >> Best,
>>> >> Ig
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 2014-05-02 11:12 GMT-03:00 Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi everyone,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> At the end of the call I've pasted a link to the Semantic Pingback
>>> >>> project:
>>> >>> http://aksw.org/Projects/SemanticPingback.html
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The idea, if I got it well, was to have the owner of URIs receive a ping
>>> >>> when some other datasets link to their URIs. I.e. when these other datasets
>>> >>> include statements whose objects (in the RDF sense) are resource from the
>>> >>> owner's dataset.
>>> >>> This would be very relevant for data usage, especially if we're
>>> >>> interested in promoting some pagerank-like approach as alternative to
>>> >>> 'traditional' data catalogues'.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best,
>>> >>>   Antoine
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >> Ig Ibert Bittencourt
>>> >> Professor Adjunto III - Instituto de Computação/Universidade Federal de
>>> >> Alagoas (UFAL)
>>> >> Vice-Coordenador da Comissão Especial de Informática na Educação
>>> >> Líder do Centro de Excelência em Tecnologias Sociais
>>> >> Co-fundador da Startup MeuTutor Soluções Educacionais LTDA.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil Archer
>>> W3C Data Activity Lead
>>> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/
>>> 
>>> http://philarcher.org
>>> +44 (0)7887 767755
>>> @philarcher1
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> Let's build a World Wide Semantic Web!
>>> http://worldwidesemanticweb.org/
>>> 
>>> e-Humanities Group (KNAW)
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Onderzoeker
>> +31(0)6 14576494
>> christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl
>> 
>> Data Archiving and Networked Services (DANS)
>> DANS bevordert duurzame toegang tot digitale onderzoeksgegevens. Kijk op www.dans.knaw.nl voor meer informatie. DANS is een instituut van KNAW en NWO.
>> 
>> Let op, per 1 januari hebben we een nieuw adres: 
>> DANS | Anna van Saksenlaan 51 | 2593 HW Den Haag | Postbus 93067 | 2509 AB Den Haag | +31 70 349 44 50 | info@dans.knaw.nl | www.dans.knaw.nl
>> 
>> Let's build a World Wide Semantic Web!
>> http://worldwidesemanticweb.org/
>> 
>> e-Humanities Group (KNAW)
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Onderzoeker
> +31(0)6 14576494
> christophe.gueret@dans.knaw.nl
> 
> Data Archiving and Networked Services (DANS)
> DANS bevordert duurzame toegang tot digitale onderzoeksgegevens. Kijk op www.dans.knaw.nl voor meer informatie. DANS is een instituut van KNAW en NWO.
> 
> Let op, per 1 januari hebben we een nieuw adres: 
> DANS | Anna van Saksenlaan 51 | 2593 HW Den Haag | Postbus 93067 | 2509 AB Den Haag | +31 70 349 44 50 | info@dans.knaw.nl | www.dans.knaw.nl
> 
> Let's build a World Wide Semantic Web!
> http://worldwidesemanticweb.org/
> 
> e-Humanities Group (KNAW)
>