Re: [latinreq] Paper sizes?

Google books says no ebook exists for Bringhurst.

The closest I could get to something that wants to be Bringhurst for the web is this: http://webtypography.net/ (which I also pasted into yesterday’s IRC session).

Most of the typography “canon” has not yet made it to eBookLandia.

This is a modern day typography book that _is_ available as an eBook (albeit page replica): http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Manual-Typography-Setting-Perfect-ebook/dp/B006X73AJW/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1389117053&sr=1-1&keywords=Jim+Felici


And I found what the typophile.com refers to as the typography “triumvirate” here: http://typophile.com/node/15349 (Bringhurst is the first title on the list)

Hope this helps.

Jean Kaplansky
Digital Content Solutions Architect, Aptara

Invited Expert Member  l  W3C Digital Publishing Interest Group
Task Force Lead  l  W3C Digital Publishing MathML/STM Interest Group
Member  l  IDPF Indexing and Open Annotations EDUPUB Working Groups,
BISG Content Structure Committee, STC, and SSP

jean.kaplansky@aptaracorp.com<mailto:jean.kaplansky@aptaracorp.com>
+1.518.487.9670

Skype: JeanKaplansky
Twitter: @JeanKaplansky


[cid:46D32572-56BB-4040-AADE-CCD53C980255]

From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr<mailto:LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>>
Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 at 3:45 AM
To: "Cramer, Dave" <Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com<mailto:Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com>>, Innovimax W3C <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com<mailto:innovimax+w3c@gmail.com>>
Cc: Tony Graham <tgraham@mentea.net<mailto:tgraham@mentea.net>>, "public-digipub@w3.org<mailto:public-digipub@w3.org>" <public-digipub@w3.org<mailto:public-digipub@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: [latinreq] Paper sizes?
Resent-From: <public-digipub@w3.org<mailto:public-digipub@w3.org>>
Resent-Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 at 4:32 AM

Hi Dave and Mohammed,

I think it is a good question : “page ratio”. It belongs more to ebooks than paper dimensions does.
It brings up the device form factor question which fuels the “adaptative layout” and “responsive design” efforts for ebooks.

It also raises some concerns from publishers/authors/designers about the way they want their content to be displayed in a 2 dimensions area we call a page on paper context and a screen in electronic ones.
We should then at least say something about an intended “page ratio” in these cases, the very first samples being the “à la française” or “à l’italienne” bindings.

BTW, do you know of any digital version of Bringhurst[1]  ?

Luc




De : Cramer, Dave [mailto:Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com]
Envoyé : lundi 6 janvier 2014 23:39
À : Innovimax W3C
Cc : Tony Graham; public-digipub@w3.org<mailto:public-digipub@w3.org>
Objet : Re: [latinreq] Paper sizes?

Hi Mohamed,

On 1/6/14 5:34 PM, "Innovimax W3C" <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com<mailto:innovimax+w3c@gmail.com>> wrote:

I agree that page size may be out of scope, but what about "page ratio" ?
Mohamed

What might we say about that? Much of this ends up being about aesthetics or design theory. Is there something that's not covered in Bringhurst[1]  that we should document?

Thanks!

Dave

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style





On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 11:07 PM, Cramer, Dave <Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com<mailto:Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com>> wrote:
Hi Tony,

On 1/5/14 6:30 PM, "Tony Graham" <tgraham@mentea.net<mailto:tgraham@mentea.net>> wrote:


>Would it be useful to have a section on conventional paper sizes?  Perhaps
>under the 'Trade' section?  Not really something you'd want for an EPUB, I
>know, nor really all that useful for someone printing to an A4- or
>Letter-size printer from their web browser, but might be useful for
>someone wanting to go to a paper book.
Paper sizes for book printing depend on the manufacturing process, and on
marketing. We use several dozen different sizes, but it's probably a
different collection of sizes than an educational publisher, or a STEM
publisher.

I'm not sure what we could say about paper sizes, other than to list a
bunch of them. Most production systems I'm aware of let you define
arbitrary page sizes, and also have presets for common sizes. Page size
certainly influences design, but again I'm not sure what information we
could provide.

>
>Alternatively, you might suppose that someone designing for a Publisher
>would be told what size to design for and that anybody else could do what
>works best for them.
In my line of work, the trim size and page count are often known before
the book is written. It's an external input into our production process,
driven by marketing and financial considerations. The same considerations
apply even at the smallest scales. I've printed and perfect-bound some
books by doing a crude imposition onto letter-sized paper, printing
duplex, cutting the sheets in half, and then binding and trimming the
results. So 5.5 inches x 8.5 inches made sense given those constraints :)

>
>I don't know that you'd want to get into discussing signatures and
>imposition, though there is an oblique reference to signatures in "The
>nature of printing and binding also mandate that the number of pages in a
>book be some multiple of eight, sixteen, or thirty-two pages." in "Book
>optimization" [1].  (FWIW, that section refers to trade publishing but
>isn't in the trade publishing section.)
I'd be very happy to declare imposition out of scope! I just wanted to
mention page count as an external constraint which an advanced automated
system might need to take into account.

Thanks!

Dave


>
>Regards,
>
>
>Tony Graham                                   tgraham@mentea.net<mailto:tgraham@mentea.net>
>Consultant                                 http://www.mentea.net

>Mentea       13 Kelly's Bay Beach, Skerries, Co. Dublin, Ireland
> --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --
>    XML, XSL-FO and XSLT consulting, training and programming
>       Chair, Print and Page Layout Community Group @ W3C
>
>[1] http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#book-optimization

>
>

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