Re: [latinreq] Paper sizes?

On 07 Jan 2014, at 18:54 , Jean Kaplansky <Jean.Kaplansky@aptaracorp.com> wrote:

> Google books says no ebook exists for Bringhurst.
> 
> The closest I could get to something that wants to be Bringhurst for the web is this: http://webtypography.net/ (which I also pasted into yesterday’s IRC session).

Thanks a lot for this reference!

Ivan

> 
> Most of the typography “canon” has not yet made it to eBookLandia.
> 
> This is a modern day typography book that _is_ available as an eBook (albeit page replica): http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Manual-Typography-Setting-Perfect-ebook/dp/B006X73AJW/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1389117053&sr=1-1&keywords=Jim+Felici
> 
> And I found what the typophile.com refers to as the typography “triumvirate” here: http://typophile.com/node/15349 (Bringhurst is the first title on the list)
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Jean Kaplansky
> Digital Content Solutions Architect, Aptara
> 
> Invited Expert Member  l  W3C Digital Publishing Interest Group
> Task Force Lead  l  W3C Digital Publishing MathML/STM Interest Group
> Member  l  IDPF Indexing and Open Annotations EDUPUB Working Groups, 
> BISG Content Structure Committee, STC, and SSP
> 
> jean.kaplansky@aptaracorp.com
> +1.518.487.9670
> 
> Skype: JeanKaplansky
> Twitter: @JeanKaplansky
> 
> 
> <04503480-0856-4E40-B984-E9E64C468C2E[28].png>
> 
> From: AUDRAIN LUC <LAUDRAIN@hachette-livre.fr>
> Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 at 3:45 AM
> To: "Cramer, Dave" <Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com>, Innovimax W3C <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com>
> Cc: Tony Graham <tgraham@mentea.net>, "public-digipub@w3.org" <public-digipub@w3.org>
> Subject: RE: [latinreq] Paper sizes?
> Resent-From: <public-digipub@w3.org>
> Resent-Date: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 at 4:32 AM
> 
> Hi Dave and Mohammed,
>  
> I think it is a good question : “page ratio”. It belongs more to ebooks than paper dimensions does.
> It brings up the device form factor question which fuels the “adaptative layout” and “responsive design” efforts for ebooks.
>  
> It also raises some concerns from publishers/authors/designers about the way they want their content to be displayed in a 2 dimensions area we call a page on paper context and a screen in electronic ones.
> We should then at least say something about an intended “page ratio” in these cases, the very first samples being the “à la française” or “à l’italienne” bindings.
>  
> BTW, do you know of any digital version of Bringhurst[1]  ?
>  
> Luc
>  
>  
>  
>  
> De : Cramer, Dave [mailto:Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com] 
> Envoyé : lundi 6 janvier 2014 23:39
> À : Innovimax W3C
> Cc : Tony Graham; public-digipub@w3.org
> Objet : Re: [latinreq] Paper sizes?
>  
> Hi Mohamed,
>  
> On 1/6/14 5:34 PM, "Innovimax W3C" <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>> I agree that page size may be out of scope, but what about "page ratio" ?
>> 
>> Mohamed
>  
> What might we say about that? Much of this ends up being about aesthetics or design theory. Is there something that's not covered in Bringhurst[1]  that we should document?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> Dave
>  
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elements_of_Typographic_Style
>  
>  
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 11:07 PM, Cramer, Dave <Dave.Cramer@hbgusa.com> wrote:
>> Hi Tony,
>> 
>> On 1/5/14 6:30 PM, "Tony Graham" <tgraham@mentea.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >Would it be useful to have a section on conventional paper sizes?  Perhaps
>> >under the 'Trade' section?  Not really something you'd want for an EPUB, I
>> >know, nor really all that useful for someone printing to an A4- or
>> >Letter-size printer from their web browser, but might be useful for
>> >someone wanting to go to a paper book.
>> 
>> Paper sizes for book printing depend on the manufacturing process, and on
>> marketing. We use several dozen different sizes, but it's probably a
>> different collection of sizes than an educational publisher, or a STEM
>> publisher.
>> 
>> I'm not sure what we could say about paper sizes, other than to list a
>> bunch of them. Most production systems I'm aware of let you define
>> arbitrary page sizes, and also have presets for common sizes. Page size
>> certainly influences design, but again I'm not sure what information we
>> could provide.
>> 
>> >
>> >Alternatively, you might suppose that someone designing for a Publisher
>> >would be told what size to design for and that anybody else could do what
>> >works best for them.
>> 
>> In my line of work, the trim size and page count are often known before
>> the book is written. It's an external input into our production process,
>> driven by marketing and financial considerations. The same considerations
>> apply even at the smallest scales. I've printed and perfect-bound some
>> books by doing a crude imposition onto letter-sized paper, printing
>> duplex, cutting the sheets in half, and then binding and trimming the
>> results. So 5.5 inches x 8.5 inches made sense given those constraints :)
>> 
>> >
>> >I don't know that you'd want to get into discussing signatures and
>> >imposition, though there is an oblique reference to signatures in "The
>> >nature of printing and binding also mandate that the number of pages in a
>> >book be some multiple of eight, sixteen, or thirty-two pages." in "Book
>> >optimization" [1].  (FWIW, that section refers to trade publishing but
>> >isn't in the trade publishing section.)
>> 
>> I'd be very happy to declare imposition out of scope! I just wanted to
>> mention page count as an external constraint which an advanced automated
>> system might need to take into account.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >
>> >
>> >Tony Graham                                   tgraham@mentea.net
>> >Consultant                                 http://www.mentea.net
>> >Mentea       13 Kelly's Bay Beach, Skerries, Co. Dublin, Ireland
>> > --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --
>> >    XML, XSL-FO and XSLT consulting, training and programming
>> >       Chair, Print and Page Layout Community Group @ W3C
>> >
>> >[1] http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/#book-optimization
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> 
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