W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-digipub-ig@w3.org > February 2015

Re: Footnote discussions

From: Shane McCarron <shane@aptest.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2015 18:15:16 -0600
Message-ID: <CAOk_reFXMzBP6bQ-g3POsYmxT41ahL4Y7LVi0PHF3X_Bg0cr=w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Johannes Wilm <johanneswilm@vivliostyle.com>
Cc: George Kerscher <kerscher@montana.com>, "public-digipub-ig@w3.org" <public-digipub-ig@w3.org>, "Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken" <tsiegman@wiley.com>
Surely that is still just rendering? I mean, if you are defining dPub rules
then yes, I would specify it.  But from an HTML perspective I don't think
it matters.  HTML is about semantics.  I think there are two elements
needed (maybe 3).  One is something that says "this is a reference to a
note".  The other(s) say "this is a note with an id of 'x'".  semantically
this is clear, and assistive technologies would have no problem dealing
with it.

In behavioral terms, I don't mind if it us up to the user agent.  If I
activate a link to a note, does it move me to the note?  Does it create a
modal dialog with the note?  As long as I can get back where I was I am
happy. I absolutely think I need to activate it though.  I don't want the
user agent to, for example, magically display the footnote in a tooltip
when I mouse over the reference.  It might be huge!

Footnote references obviously need to be inline.  And I assume they will
have default rendering that makes sense.  (e.g., <p>This refefences some
footnotes <noteref src="#note1" />, <noteref src="#note2" />, <noteref
src="#note3 /></p> might render as "This references some footnotes [1],
[2], [3])

Are there more complicated requirements for the base markup beyond this?

On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Johannes Wilm <johanneswilm@vivliostyle.com>
wrote:

> Hey,
> not sure about what about footnotes should be defined here, but different
> from sidenotes, which may need to be moved up or down in order not to
> overlap, in the case of footnotes the difficulty is making sure that the
> reference to the footnote is on the same page as the footnote itself. In
> edge cases this ends up being rather tricky (for example: 6 footnotes
> following oneanother immediately, and the reference being pushed on to the
> next page when 3 of the footnotes have been inserted). Should the default
> behavior in all these cases be documented, or is it mainly important to
> just state that footnotes are a type of element?
> On Feb 1, 2015 3:43 PM, "George Kerscher" <kerscher@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>> Great to see footnotes/ endnotes  is of interest to the HTML working
>> group. From the HTML5 specs we have:
>>
>> Details
>>
>> In printed documents, the type of tangential content that the aside
>> element represents is sometimes formatted as a sidebar or annotation or
>> footnote.
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/aside.html
>>
>>
>>
>> However,  there should be three separate elements and having the aside
>> for asides and notes for footnotes and endnotes seems right. Of course
>> there is work on annotations now that is also in play.
>>
>> David Mcdonalds article sseems close. I would expect that following the
>> EPUB 3 usage would be good, but elevating note to an element.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>> George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ahby@aptest.com [mailto:ahby@aptest.com] *On Behalf Of *Shane
>> McCarron
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 01, 2015 9:45 AM
>> *To:* Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken
>> *Cc:* public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Footnote discussions
>>
>>
>>
>> Not that I know of.  David MacDonald has done some early work and has a
>> good article about it at http://davidmacd.com/blog/html51-footnotes.html
>>
>>
>>
>> I think our goal in the A11Y Task Force right now is to gather
>> requirements and even potential solutions, then get to the formal text for
>> the HTML 5.1 recommendation (and potentially a push of a role or roles /
>> states / properties into ARIA 1.1).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Siegman, Tzviya - Hoboken <
>> tsiegman@wiley.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shane,
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there a working definition of the footnote element? I think it would
>> be helpful to have some preliminary discussion on the list about this. If
>> there is not a definition, I think we might be able to help with it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tzviya
>>
>>
>>
>> ****************************
>>
>> Tzviya Siegman * Digital Book Standards & Capabilities Lead * John Wiley
>> & Sons, Inc.
>>
>> 111 River Street, MS 5-02 * Hoboken, NJ 07030-5774 * 201-748-6884 *
>> tsiegman@wiley.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ahby@aptest.com [mailto:ahby@aptest.com] *On Behalf Of *Shane
>> McCarron
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 01, 2015 11:06 AM
>> *To:* public-digipub-ig@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Footnote discussions
>>
>>
>>
>> The HTML Accessibility Task Force has asked me to try to get input from
>> DPub on the introduction of a footnote element (presumably for HTML 5.1).
>> This would be in the context of things like requirements, default role,
>> etc.  They are looking for this input in the next two weeks.  Is there a
>> way we could schedule some time to discuss it?  If, as I assume, that this
>> group has opinions.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Shane McCarron
>>
>> Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Shane McCarron
>>
>> Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.
>>
>


-- 
Shane McCarron
Managing Director, Applied Testing and Technology, Inc.
Received on Monday, 2 February 2015 00:15:46 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:35:55 UTC