- From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
- Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 09:11:00 -0800
- To: "Peter F. Patel-Schneider" <pfpschneider@gmail.com>, public-data-shapes-wg@w3.org
I was using that facetiously (which doesn't come across well in email, I know.) But, rather than picking at nits, can we agree that we have a requirement, or no? And if no, what would be the reason? kc On 12/20/14 8:24 AM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote: > No, we definitely do not have any story that is even vaguely related to > this issue. > > Story S1 > https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/User_Stories#S1:_The_model.27s_Broken.21 > is instead about missing information in an RDF graph that defines an > ontology. > > peter > > > On 12/20/2014 07:51 AM, Karen Coyle wrote: >> As we are here defining requirements that meet actual needs, don't we >> now have >> a requirement to include in the shapes or validation solution the >> ability to >> define an object type that excludes literal values? (Assuming others >> also find >> this requirement compelling.) Later we can determine whether/how that >> can be >> done. If it cannot be done with RDF, then I would hope that actual >> user needs >> are taken into account in RDF development, which I assume is not >> frozen at >> this point in time. If it cannot be done with RDF now or ever, then we >> are >> back to "The Model's Broken!" which is already one of our stories. >> >> kc >> >> On 12/20/14 7:12 AM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 12/19/2014 11:36 PM, Holger Knublauch wrote: >>>> >>>> On 12/20/14, 4:33 PM, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > We need a URI for that, so that we can say that "every value of a >>>>> given >>>>> property must be a resource". Basically a way to say "anything that >>>>> can >>>>> appear as a subject in a triple (and therefore can have its own >>>>> properties). >>>>> We have always used rdfs:Resource for that and it worked well in >>>>> practice - >>>>> and rdfs:Literal to say "every datatype". rdfs:NonLiteral does not >>>>> exist. >>>>> OWL had owl:ObjectProperty and owl:DatatypeProperty, and if you left >>>>> their >>>>> range empty then they had that default interpretation. How was this >>>>> ever >>>>> supposed to work in RDF Schema? >>>>> >>>>> RDFS never needed to address this distinction (arguably because it's >>>>> not s >>>>> schema language). It is certainly better to mint a new term than to >>>>> confuse >>>>> the meaning of an existing term. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I would be OK with a different term but this should then become the >>>> superclass >>>> of all other classes, so that the inheritance model is consistent. >>>> Currently >>>> only rdfs:Resource can play this role I think, but that unfortunately >>>> includes >>>> literals. And owl:Thing would suck in way too much complexity just for >>>> this >>>> technical detail (and existing models that use rdfs:subClassOf >>>> rdfs:Resource >>>> would be excluded too). >>>> >>>> Holger >>>> >>>> >>> >>> It appears that you are asking for the class whose instances are all >>> resources excluding literal values. The expressive power required for >>> this class goes well beyond the bounds of RDFS. >>> >>> This new class cannot be the superclass of all classes. It is not a >>> superclass of the class that is the fixed meaning of rdfs:Resource, of >>> course, and it is also not a superclass of class that is the fixed >>> meaning of rdfs:Literal or of any of the datatype classes. Making this >>> class a superclass of all classes would break RDFS. >>> >>> It would also not be the case that the meaning of all IRIs and blank >>> nodes would belong to this new classes. In RDF the meaning of an IRI or >>> a blank node can be a literal value. >>> >>> >>> peter >>> >>> >> > -- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet/+1-510-984-3600
Received on Saturday, 20 December 2014 17:11:28 UTC