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Re: [csswg-drafts] [css-text] Need additional value of word-break for Korean (#4285)

From: CSS Meeting Bot via GitHub <sysbot+gh@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2019 17:01:53 +0000
To: public-css-archive@w3.org
Message-ID: <issue_comment.created-542797626-1571245312-sysbot+gh@w3.org>
The CSS Working Group just discussed `Need additional value of word-break for Korean`.

<details><summary>The full IRC log of that discussion</summary>
&lt;dael> Topic: Need additional value of word-break for Korean<br>
&lt;dael> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4285<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Reminding people: Korean traditionally written like Japanese without spaces. Now use spaces, but line-breaking has not changes where you can break like Japanese<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Some typographers agree in many contexts it's nice to line-break Korean like English. not everyone agrees with that. Discussion in GH shows that.<br>
&lt;dael> florian: We need another value because the existing 'keep-all' only works if you can lang-tag. Do we care about allowing this behavior for Korean that can't be lang tagged? I think we do.<br>
&lt;dael> florian: If you're writing Korean in a text editor or from a database where you don't have language tags it's tricky to tag on the fly. Amount of magic you have to do is really obnoxious.<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Either we say when editing this behavior is impossible or we say for the Korean alphabet you get the normal or we add keep-all-hangul<br>
&lt;dael> myles: putting hangul in the value doesn't make sense when you use lang<br>
&lt;dael> florian: But you can't put lang on contenteditable section because you don't know what will go in there. If they do a mix of languages you can't language tag. Adding spans on the fly depending on what user types is performance-wise terrible.<br>
&lt;dael> myles: Seems wrong leevl of abstraction. Wish it could be generalized. Worried eventually have 100 different lang specific values.<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Possibly. It's really that there are two normal behaviors so normal can't do the right thing. We need two normals. I don't think there are that many languages that need two normals<br>
&lt;dael> AmeliaBR: That's my concern too. Before settling on language specific keyword do more research to see if more languages have this issue. How much input have you had from general i118n experts beyond Korean use case<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Have not heard of any language. People who would probably know have been involved<br>
&lt;dael> fantasai: I think if there were other languages they would need a keyword. It's separating Hangul from CHinese and Japanese. Most other writing systems don't mix in the name way and not that many that break everywhere like this. I'm not aware of any others that alternate in the same way as Korean<br>
&lt;fantasai> s/keyword/separate keyword/<br>
&lt;tantek> q+ to suggest raising this to i18n here to get broader input from experts in more languages: https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues<br>
&lt;dael> jensimmons: I like what florian is proposing. I understand concern on break from purity, but I feel like one thing web didn't do well was support international languages. THis is a way web can keep up with evolving graphic design changes. Feels like a way to make sure web supports a culture and its ability to evolve instead of saying it's complicated and we don't know where it's going to go<br>
&lt;dael> chris: Good idea as long as clearly defined what this value does when don't meet Korean text. I think it's a thing we need. If web started in Korea we would have had this from the start<br>
&lt;Rossen_> q?<br>
&lt;dael> florian: If you're not in Hangul you do the same as keep-all<br>
&lt;Rossen_> ack tantek<br>
&lt;Zakim> tantek, you wanted to suggest raising this to i18n here to get broader input from experts in more languages: https://github.com/w3c/i18n-discuss/issues<br>
&lt;dael> tantek: I want to re-raise something from AmeliaBR. AmeliaBR asked how much input we had from general i18n experts. I want to raise that and propose before we resolve we file and issue on i18n discuss to get input from broader experts.<br>
&lt;dael> tantek: florian saying you haven't heard of other languages isn't quite sufficient<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Reaching out to i18n, yes. But to have a modern language that has the exact same behavior so we can name the keyword something else we need a language who by defaults breaks between every language and want to move away from that and there aren't that many.<br>
&lt;myles> q+<br>
&lt;dael> tantek: I'm saying it shouldn't be dependent on just your expertise. You may be correct, but worth getting that group to take a look.<br>
&lt;dael> myles: Wanted to ask if any thought given on how to impl? Like are there line breaking libraries that impl this behavior?<br>
&lt;dael> florian: This would need to be impl in ICU. ICU seems amenable to this but if we expand ICU would have to expand as well.<br>
&lt;dael> Rossen_: I hear requests to get more from i18n. florian are you okay to do that this week? To get traction or a checkmark to say it's good?<br>
&lt;dael> florian: Yes, I can look into this<br>
</details>


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Received on Wednesday, 16 October 2019 17:01:55 UTC

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