[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2024-11-11

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-11-11-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2024-11-11-vc-education/audio.ogg

A video recording is also available at:

https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-weekly-2024-11-11.mp4

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2024-11-11

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2024Nov/0001.html
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaioli, Dmitri Zagidulin
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Eric Shepherd, Merul (AuvoDigital), Ildiko 
  Mazar, Adam (AuvoDigital), Drummond Reed, andor, Nis Jespersen , 
  Phil Barker, Andy Griebel, David Ward, Gerald Glickman, Laura 
  Paglione, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), 
  Stuart Freeman, Ann, Mahesh Balan - pocketcred.com, David 
  Poltorak, Susan Stroud, TimG, Deb, James Chartrand, Colin 
  Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Jeff O - HumanOS, Kaliya Young, Markus 
  Sabadello

<ildiko_mazar> Hello, good morning/afternoon everybody
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
<ildiko_mazar> Thanks, Dmitri
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So as uh as you can see these meetings are 
  recorded and it will be uh posted on uh the ccg minutes uh GitHub 
  repository.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right I think that's all the boilerplate 
  let's get started uh any introductions or reintroductions uh 
  aside from our August guests.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh anyone new to the call that was introduced 
  themselves or haven't introduced in a while and want to 
  reintroduce.
Merul_(AuvoDigital): Hi I'm it's it's my first time in this call 
  I'm mol I'm the CTO and co-founder for alvo digital.
Merul_(AuvoDigital): Uh I've been in the identity space for about 
  uh 4 years now I'm I you guys might know me from tangle labs.
Merul_(AuvoDigital): I've been a mentor for Google summer of code 
  and have had background working with Google and a couple 
  corporate players.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Maru we're really glad to have you here 
  welcome.
Merul_(AuvoDigital): Thank you very much.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  All right uh any Community announcements 
  events coming up and so.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  On all right no announcements let's jump into 
  it so our main topic today is Gan uh is the global acceptance 
  Network and we have drum and Reed.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Uh and and team to uh come talk to us about it 
  uh Drummond over to you.
Drummond Reed:  Uh you bet happen to be here and actually um uh 
  accompany me is Andor kesselman who's uh.
Drummond Reed:  On our Tech Team and so uh we'll start out by 
  doing brief introductions um so uh I've been I've been in the uh 
  um internet identity space uh since they started internet 
  identity Workshop uh.
<andor> David Poltorak is here as well. Also leading the tech 
  workstream
Drummond Reed:  19 Years ago I guess it's going to be 20 with the 
  next 1 uh and and uh last week was uh.
Drummond Reed:  Quite amazing with 355 people at IBEW um the 
  largest 1 ever first time we ever uh actually maxed out on the 
  second day we ran out of rooms for all the sessions that were 
  called so um uh but I've been to all of them and been on the 
  whole you know um.
Drummond Reed:  Uh SSI decentralized identity train and uh so 
  very happy to be here uh uh today to talk to you about uh another 
  step in that direction the global acceptance Network um I mostly 
  work uh and have been working on the standards and protocols in 
  the space for a long time was 1 of the co-authors of the uh 
  decentralized identity um specification w3c and worked on um the 
  first version of a verifiable credentials not so much the second 
  version that's that's um been a another great group uh Ander over 
  to you to do a little introduction.
Andor: Yep and also we have David as well who also is helping 
  lead the uh the tech workstream uh my name is Andor um I am 
  leading the tech workstream alongside with uh Dave Pak who's 
  joining this call as well um previously have uh done a number of 
  of startups and so forth as a CTO and also very active in the 
  diff and Trust of communities in various capacities.
Andor: Um mostly was focused on personal data source prior to 
  this um and then has been had had I've had the pleasure of 
  working with Drummond and a few other folks on the Gan or these 
  last 6 months so it's been a fantastic journey and um Dave you're 
  up next.
Drummond Reed:  Cool excellent um.
Drummond Reed:  So uh we're um.
Drummond Reed:  We're here to talk to you today about the global 
  acceptance Network give you some background and and hopefully uh 
  uh dive into um you know 1 of the main topics that uh the Gan uh 
  we we do use that uh uh acronym for for short um that again is 
  focused on which is interoperable uh trust Registries uh for 
  digital trust ecosystems um and uh I want to say uh uh Demetri uh 
  invited us to uh to join this after he gave a fantastic session 
  on uh um trust Registries at at IBEW and uh we we agreed hey we 
  we have a lot a lot in common a lot to talk about so I'm hoping 
  um this uh ends up being very interactive we we'll describe what 
  we're doing uh at the well acceptance Network why we set it up 
  where we're going and then we just love for it to be as 
  interactive as we can to discuss um you know what.
Drummond Reed:   What your needs are.
Drummond Reed:  Uh educ working group and and where you uh see 
  yourselves going with trust registries.
Drummond Reed:  Will quickly share my screen to uh.
Drummond Reed:  See I want to pick up.
Drummond Reed:  This window right here.
Drummond Reed:  And uh tell me if that's showing their.
Andor: Hey Sean d.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep we can see it go ahead.
Drummond Reed:  Good okay that just uh you know quickly um.
Drummond Reed:  Summarize that uh at a high level so uh we'll 
  dive down into it but the the whole concept of digital trust 
  ecosystems is uh at the at the heart of what we're doing with the 
  global acceptance Network um and uh what we uh realized uh a 
  number of us working in this space um is that as the uh adoption 
  of verifiable digital credentials uh grows and digital wallets 
  grow.
Drummond Reed:  Going to face the situation is similar to what uh 
  payment cards did um you know 40 50 years ago uh which is you 
  know interoperability across the different um.
Drummond Reed:  Uh networks and ecosystems that they started to 
  be adopted in and you know for the very same reasons the maximum 
  value is credentials that.
Drummond Reed:   For some.
Drummond Reed:  Credentials I put it anyway it can be uh accepted 
  across ecosystems um and and to do that of course you need to 
  have a way of of of verifying um those credentials and that's the 
  uh the key role of of trust Registries and we'll get into.
Drummond Reed:  Uh doing that in a way that is uh secure 
  interoperable safe and sustainable um across you know what we 
  hope become.
Drummond Reed:  Thousands and eventually tens of thousands and 
  millions of digital trust ecosystems is uh is is the problem 
  space where we said we're headed into this the earlier we tackle 
  it um the the better off we'll all be uh Having learned the 
  lessons of you know things like the payment Networks.
Drummond Reed:  But also seeing how um with decentralized 
  identity and trust it they're fundamental differences in the 
  design we're not going to put together a centralized system like 
  uh these are Mastercard or Amex uh needs to be decentralized and 
  and that requires uh um you know uh working together on uh what 
  will the the governance interoperability um and uh uh adoption of 
  of those ecosystems so um.
Drummond Reed:  I'll give you a little context uh on on how uh we 
  got here um my uh day job is uh director Trust Services at Jen uh 
  we're 1 of the uh we're formed by the merger of a vast Norton 
  LifeLock to the largest antivirus and consumer cyber safety 
  companies.
Drummond Reed:  And uh um I work in the division called digital 
  Trust Services uh which was started at a vast originally 
  recognizing that the whole next generation of consumer cyber 
  safety tools uh needed to tackle uh things like digital 
  credentials digital wallets digital Trust Services and uh so um 
  the whole world of of SSI and and verifiable credentials uh it's 
  been moving into that space pretty quickly.
Drummond Reed:  As we talked to some of our customers about the 
  world we're doing in that area uh they they very much resonate 
  with uh the concept of digital trust ecosystems and uh I'm going 
  to take a second I'm going to pop over here and uh to um a 
  diagram uh from 1 of the white papers that we've been working on 
  with our members are is this I I want to make sure the the screen 
  changed are you seeing this now the uh.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep uh we can can see the whole the the 3.
https://gan.foundation/
Drummond Reed:  Good good good exactly so I'm gonna I'll make it 
  a little bit larger here but I'm gonna point out uh the name of 
  this uh paper that we're working on that I hope will be released 
  on the uh on the Gan dot Foundation by the way is the uh the 
  website that we um um um brought up in in in uh September to 
  start talking publicly about the global acceptance Network I hope 
  this white paper will be up it's in the second round of review by 
  uh by our members right now but I'll highlight the title the 
  ecosystem of ecosystems model for decentralized digital trust 
  infrastructure um that is you know we we've been working on this 
  white paper because it explains the essence of what we're doing 
  with the Gan and and I'm going to share a few diagrams from this 
  paper just to make it as crystal clear as I can what it is we're 
  doing and why.
Drummond Reed:  Um so you know I think everyone on this call is 
  probably very familiar with this uh diagram uh the upper half of 
  which we've referred to as the trust triangle for a long time and 
  then when you uh add the governing body at the bottom for uh for 
  scalability and uh various other reasons um interoperability then 
  you get uh the trust diamond or governance Diamond whichever 1 
  you want to call it.
Drummond Reed:  And um when it comes to the exchange of 
  verifiable credentials uh this I call this the core DNA of uh 
  decentralized digital trust um I have another version of this 
  diagram that puts a I want to call credential family right in the 
  center because that's what every digital trust ecosystem ends out 
  revolving around is what is what is the credential or family of 
  credentials that they need.
Drummond Reed:  Uh meet the trust objectives of that ecosystem um 
  and then of course uh the governing body which may be as formal 
  as a you know nation state government or as informal as a you 
  know open source Community um or um a church a school even a a 
  neighborhood uh whatever um uh governance they are are using for 
  that uh ecosystem for that family of credentials uh public and 
  what we generally call governance framework many folks in the uh 
  industry uh in the identities we call Trust Frameworks the point 
  is it's at least human readable and it may also be all or 
  portions of it um uh machine readable uh but that those are the 
  policies that anyone inside or outside the ecosystem can look at 
  and to which the members of the ecosystem are either formally or 
  informally uh making.
Drummond Reed:  Ments that they're.
Drummond Reed:  Operating by those policies and again there's a 
  whole Spectrum um of you know informal very lightly weight uh 
  trust Community operating like an open source project at the 
  other end of the spectrum you have something like the European 
  digital identity wallets initiative where um there's very deep um 
  uh government regulation uh you know 27 member states working 
  together to develop their own um digital wallet implementation 
  their own legislation around it.
Drummond Reed:  And then of course the interoperability that need 
  to achieve.
Drummond Reed:  Um and since I mentioned that.
Drummond Reed:  Uh the Udi uh uh project I want to point out it 
  is a wonderful example um of uh what we call the ecosystem of 
  ecosystems model because you as you're looking at a digital trust 
  ecosystem again as smaller as large as it might be.
Drummond Reed:  It becomes pretty clear oh well there's there's 
  there's many cases where you're going to have governance uh 
  that's Set uh for a number of ecosystems that operate within a 
  larger ecosystem um and the eugi is a good example um they're 
  setting uh uh uh.
Drummond Reed:  And and interoperability requirements for the EU 
  as a whole but they're 27 member states and uh uh Jen is 1 of the 
  companies participating in the large-scale pilots for the EU di 
  wallet and we just uh finished presenting report that basically 
  points out well guess what the EU um digital identity Wallace 
  ecosystem is an ecosystem of ecosystems it probably goes at least 
  3 levels and in some cases deeper than that.
Drummond Reed:  We believe this ecosystem of ecosystems pattern 
  whether it's National or jurisdictional based ecosystems or 
  industry based ecosystems um or more specialized ecosystems it'll 
  be a common pattern to see ecosystem of ecosystems uh and that's 
  why um the interoperability between ecosystems become so 
  important.
https://trustoverip.github.io/tswg-trust-registry-protocol/
<ildiko_mazar> Is the model accessible for viewing? Can you 
  please share the link to the Google doc?
<ildiko_mazar> Do I interpret correctly that it is then possible 
  that a credential issuer (e.g. university) is authorised to issue 
  certain types of credentials in ecosystem X but not in ecosystem 
  Y?
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Ildiko - I believe so, yes
<ildiko_mazar> :+1: Makes sense, thanks Dmitri
<andor> yes. Ecosystems are sovereign and manage their own 
  authorization layers. So Ecosystem X may authorize differently 
  than Ecosystem Y a particular entity.
<ildiko_mazar> Thanks for the reassurance, Andor
<drummond_reed> TRQP Spec: 
  https://trustoverip.github.io/tswg-trust-registry-protocol/
Dmitri Zagidulin: 
  https://blog.dcconsortium.org/issuer-registries-layering-trust-for-verifiable-credential-ecosystems-1199a9bef7c9
<drummond_reed> This sounds like exactly the kind of project that 
  GAN should be active in.
<andor> the index from 2 IIW's ago was published here :
<drummond_reed> For the record, the GAN website is 
  https://gan.foundation/
<ildiko_mazar> @Drummond, is there a sharable version of the doc 
  you showed the diagrammes from?
<deb> Thanks all- important work!
<ildiko_mazar> Thanks, please let us know when that is available, 
  so we can inform the VC EDU community
<ildiko_mazar> And the most often questioned value :-D
<david_poltorak> Thank you for having us :-)
<drummond_reed> Willd definitely do that.
<adam_(auvodigital)> Thank you :)
<ann> Awesome call!!

Received on Monday, 25 November 2024 11:32:43 UTC