[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-05-15

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-05-15-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-05-15-vc-education/audio.ogg

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-05-15

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023May/0006.html
Topics:
  1. IP Note
  2. Call Notes
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements & Reminders
  5. Plugfest 3
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Kerri Lemoie, Simone Ravaoli, Maarten Boender, Jim Goodell, Danny 
  Done, Heather Carle, Sharon Leu, Mike Schwartz, Chris Webber, 
  Kristin Delwo, Ian Davidson, Joey, Andy Griebel, Mahesh Balan - 
  pocketcred.com, Joshua Marks, Viktor (ProofSpace), Niels Klomp, 
  Lucy Yang, Susan Stroud, PL/T3-ASU, TimG, Manu Sporny, Torsten 
  Lodderstedt, Dmitri Zagidulin, David Ward, Sergey (Sphereon), 
  Geun-Hyung, Deb Everhart, Naomi, Jeff O - HumanOS, Nis Jespersen 
  , Zach Pendleton, Kayode Ezike, Kaliya Young, David Chadwick, 
  Jake dibattista, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Kimberly Linson, Marty 
  Reed, David Mason, Don Presant, Keith Hackett, Andrew Rourke, 
  Stuart Freeman, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) 
  (OpenLinkSw.com), Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Phil Barker, 
  Torsten, Marianna Milkis, ASU Pocket, Ganesh Annan, Nate Otto, 
  Eric Sembrat, Geun-Hyung Kim, Ioram Sette, Brian, Zack, Sam 
  Smith, Tracy Korsmo

<kerri_lemoie> Hello Everyone!
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie:  Give me one second here I see the transcriber 
  working but I don't see the recorder working going to stop it and 
  start it again moment.
Kerri Lemoie:  How can we try that one more time.

Topic: IP Note

<manu_sporny> You might need to invite the Transcriber back in by 
  turning on "CC"

Topic: Call Notes

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie:  Now there it is thank you appreciate that money.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey anybody here in the qualitative quite a few 
  people 43 people that's a great call and a great number of people 
  anybody here is knew it would like to introduce themselves.

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie:  And then lastly before we get to the main topic 
  see if anybody has any announcements or reminders I only have one 
  for you which is that on May 29th I believe is a holiday in the 
  states and so we won't have a call here so next Monday we will 
  have a call we're working on that agenda currently but the Monday 
  after.
Kerri Lemoie:   Is a Holiday.
Kerri Lemoie:  Morgan how you doing.
Chris Webber:  There I just wanted to say that coming up in the 
  verifiable credentials working group we're working on a bunch of 
  test Suites including adapting the test Suites we used for the 
  jff plugfest to in that effort so if we worked with you in that 
  plugfest we'd love to continue working with you and maybe help 
  integrate you into the news test Suites so you may be hearing 
  from me or manu in the next couple of weeks.
Chris Webber:   About that.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's excellent news thank you Morgan that's 
  really great.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay no other announcements or reminders in the 
  queue it seems I also feel free to hear yourselves anytime in the 
  call if you want to jump in and you know say hello and tell us 
  things that come to mind during the call Sharon may I introduce 
  you now is a is our main topic for today to kick us off with 
  plugfest 3.

Topic: Plugfest 3

Sharon Leu:  Yes I just want to do a quick can everyone hear me 
  check.
Sharon Leu:  Oh good okay cool and I'm also going to try to share 
  my screen because someone made me very pretty slide so.
Sharon Leu: 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IBLoYlVFaVdEdeJeCeat6Q8fSLBGssssALPjzSlZFjs/edit?usp=sharing
Sharon Leu:  Okay can everyone see my deck okay and I also know I 
  can drop the deck into the chat in a second as well let's see 
  let's do that that didn't work okay well yeah.
Sharon Leu:  Okay so I want to officially kick off plugfest 3 I 
  know that I sent a message earlier last week so I think some of 
  you already got the form but I think we want to use our time 
  today to do a quick overview of the technical requirements the 
  timeline and then also to talk about a few of the things that we 
  think that we need to be preparing together as a group in order 
  to make this successful so just by way of introduction again.
Sharon Leu:   For people who don't know me which I don't.
Sharon Leu:  It's called suits always good to do this my name is 
  Sharon Lou and I work at an organization called jobs for the 
  future or jmf and we are not actually a technology company in any 
  way we have as our North Star to work over the next 10 years to 
  make sure that 75 million people facing systemic barriers to 
  advancement hadn't have quality jobs and so when we do this we do 
  this through a number of traditional and non-traditional ways and 
  at jff Labs we have the opportunity to work with people who are.
Sharon Leu:   Are innovators to use technology tools and 
  different.
Sharon Leu:  Are currently available to us to help us achieve 
  these goals and so are my team looks at the specific question of 
  credentials and digital credentials and just in the credential 
  engine landscape most recently we noticed that there is like it 
  right they were reported that there were a million credentials 
  issued by over 60,000 providers in the United States and our 
  question as we were reading through this and many other similar 
  studies is how many of the existence of all of these credentials.
Sharon Leu:   We to socio-economic mobility and do they how can 
  we create an ecosystem.
<viktor_(proofspace)> Dont hear anything
<manu_sporny> I can hear Sharon
Sharon Leu:  It's are exchanged more fluidly they're used and 
  ultimately that a multiple set of multiple credentials are earned 
  by individuals over their course of their lifetime can be added 
  to a tool so that they can communicate their abilities as they 
  pursue whatever opportunities whether it's education or 
  employment and so this is our interest in verifiable credentials 
  and the use of and their use in allowing people to pursue these 
  opportunities so as.
<simone_ravaioli> sounds seems fine, Viktor
Sharon Leu:   We're doing this like we looked at the.
https://credentialengine.org/resources/counting-u-s-secondary-and-postsecondary-credentials-report/
<kerri_lemoie> Sounds seems ok @Viktor - may wish to try a 
  different browser.
Sharon Leu:  And we said to ourselves like what do we need to do 
  in order to make this happen to create the environment so that we 
  can do some of this testing and so that led us to thinking about 
  working with this group to create a series of plugfest because 
  what we noticed is that this ideal that we have which is multiple 
  credentials over by multiple issuers over a long period of time 
  and then sharing and recombining really was a description of 
  making the verifiable credential secret ecosystem work so.
Sharon Leu:   Just a quick trip down memory lane we did our first 
  plug test lat.
<viktor_(proofspace)> I use mobile app, ok will try
<simone_ravaioli> a writeup on PF1 and 2 - 
  https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/plugfest-simone-ravaioli/
Sharon Leu:  A year from now where the exercise was to display 
  one verifiable credential in the O BB 3 format in the wallet and 
  then we followed that up with the second one which was about to 
  verifiable credentials from two different issuers in a wallet or 
  issuers issuing two different wallets so I think we had taken the 
  first step in creating a collection that individuals can use and 
  so what we want to do this time is we want to increase it we want 
  to focus on presentation request and.
<kerri_lemoie> Plugfest 1: 
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-ed/plugfest-1-2022/
Sharon Leu:  I'm just going to very quickly go through the 
  technical requirements and then we're going to discuss all three 
  of them and hopefully I think this is where Carrie and Dimitri 
  and Simona can also jump in but essentially what we're saying is 
  the what we're going to specifically again focus on wall it's 
  just like the first podcast and we're going to say that in order 
  for you that you know sort of pass this bug past what you'll need 
  to do is the wallet needs to receive our request for credentials 
  it will allow the user to respond by selecting.
Sharon Leu:   The credentials that they would like to share and 
  then they will be presented to the verifier in the form of.
Sharon Leu:  Terrified will preach.
<kerri_lemoie> Plugfest 2: 
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-ed/plugfest-2-2022/
Sharon Leu:  Efficient so what does that mean so I think I'll I 
  picked like three of what I thought were the big questions and 
  then this is where I think people can jump in with their their 
  own actual questions so we're going to generate the presentation 
  request through a playground tool the second thing that I wanted 
  to say is that the first plugfest we did one credential the 
  second we did too so this time obviously have to do three we're 
  going to require to credentials one is the jff plugfest badge 
  that.
Sharon Leu:   That will be in the open badge version 3 vert.
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges 3.0: 
  https://1edtech.github.io/openbadges-specification/ob_v3p0.html
Sharon Leu:  Format just like last time and we're also going to 
  use a uscis.gov identity document I know that several people on 
  this call I have already had some experience using that 
  credential document but I think that will share additional 
  information about that moving forward essentially USCIS is the 
  United States Customs and immigration service and this allows us 
  to create a really interesting use case that is both 
  socio-economic Mobility as well as maybe like a.
Sharon Leu:   Physical Mobility use case the USCIS documents 
  especially the.
Sharon Leu:  Employment authorization documents as well as any 
  sort of documents related to legal status in the United States 
  are necessary components of finding a job in the United States in 
  addition to the academic credential so we think this is an 
  interesting combination and the third thing that I want to say is 
  just put out there is that we are going to as a how did you how 
  do you demonstrate that you did this is to verify the 
  authenticity of the verifiable proof.
Sharon Leu:   Asia including the.
Sharon Leu:  We're not going to require did off protocol 
  specifically as well as the individual be seized and credential 
  status check so I'm going to stop right there just for general 
  questions unless you want me to just plow through and then we'll 
  take questions all at the end.
Kerri Lemoie:  There are new questions yet so I hope you go 
  ahead.
Sharon Leu:  Okay I'm going to plow through okay so.
<manu_sporny> Plough through... so far so good. :)
Kerri Lemoie:  Late one question let me call a Neil's here you 
  just put himself in Like You on the floor go ahead Nails that's 
  okay.
<pl/t3-asu> please repeat the question?
<pl/t3-asu> :-)
Sharon Leu:  That's a great question I think that I'm not going 
  to I don't want to put anyone on the spot but I think that the 
  playground tool that we use last time okay so yes I will repeat 
  the question the question is what is the playground tool the 
  playground tool is going to be the chappie playground and we also 
  think but.
Sharon Leu:  The same or all right over to you.
<pl/t3-asu> mute Dmitri
Kerri Lemoie:  Yep we got you.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Yep can you hear me okay audio trouble okay 
  great.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Right so as as you remember from the previous 
  plugfest when we were testing issuing protocols the community is 
  currently United around three different protocol camps the w3c VC 
  API protocol that often Works through the credential Handler API 
  in the browser so that's that's one Camp second one being the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Open up.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Family of protocols and the third one being 
  did come to so here for testing this verification and 
  presentation exchange we were hoping to follow similar model and 
  invite each protocol Camp to put forward a playground tool so we 
  have the chappie playground tool that allows allows for.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Weston credentials.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Courage while it implementers to to go through 
  that that's what we'll be testing through in the plugfest three 
  so that's one we know that the open ID Community has a playground 
  I think put forth by David Chadwick and and others from last time 
  so we would like to invite the open to the community to pick that 
  tool or something else in its place and then.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   I similarly did come too.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I mean it.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  If we're going to have participants to put 
  forth a similar playground to which I vaguely remember being 
  presented this past I had W some weeks ago so hopefully that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Right so the playground tool will serve as the 
  verifier is the idea so the verifier will ask the wallet for 
  credentials.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And and then verify the status.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I'm here I would I would hand off that 
  question to Sharon.
<kerri_lemoie> Will call on DavidC next
Sharon Leu:  Yeah sorry I think that you're correct but we need 
  to control the variables and so you can't like we're trying to 
  narrow down the scope so that we focus on the specific thing that 
  we're trying to accomplish and I think that I mean unless okay 
  this was just an attempt to reduce the complexity because I think 
  that one of the things that you'll notice is that there are three 
  different credential types this time as well so you know.
Sharon Leu:  I don't know if that addresses it but this was just 
  our attempt to reduce complexity but if you want to do it in a 
  more complex way I think that we can be open to a conversation.
<kim_duffy> That's where we're expecting ya'll to hash it out
<dmitri_zagidulin> so, one way to think of it is, we're proposing 
  that Plugfest 3 is focusing on demonstrating interop among 
  /wallets/, for presentation exchange
<dmitri_zagidulin> rather than verifiers/RPs
Kerri Lemoie:  Nails and then we have a queue building up these 
  are excellent questions I'm going to no no you're good you're 
  good thank you let me let me get to the key I'm going to jump the 
  queue myself more like right now but then I'm going to call it 
  David because he was next only to say that you can think of this 
  plug fast as the iteration right of the first two so it is 
  assumed that these the wallets are now ready to accept.
Kerri Lemoie:   Credentials from issuers using the.
Kerri Lemoie:  As in the previous plugfest so that this is sort 
  of The Next Step Right David you are you have the floor Dave.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you David that is good to know we're going 
  to be having a follow-up call to these of course and we should 
  reach out and talk more about this so we can make these decisions 
  going forward thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Get a good Nash you are in the you have the floor 
  please.
Ganesh Annan:  Thank you Carrie so for those who don't know me my 
  name is Ganesh I'm Frontage bizarre and I've been working on the 
  management and Engineering of this playground tool named the 
  choppy playground and something that was mentioned earlier that I 
  need to tweak just a little bit is that though out of the gate 
  the verifier that is support is just one just as was architected 
  with the.
Ganesh Annan:   Sewers in it.
Ganesh Annan:  I sat there are multiple issuers that same 
  capability is being built in to the choppy playground so though 
  we're starting with one the next step that we have to complete is 
  create a test Suite so people can test their own implementations 
  of the verifiers so that the interface works properly when 
  integrated into the tool and then from there it'll open up to 
  multiple verifiers so that's just the first detail that I wanted 
  to add the next detail was just kind of being aligned with.
Ganesh Annan:   With the direction of where plugfest.
Ganesh Annan:  Weighing right so yes we proved out that were able 
  to issue different VCS through a variety of issuers but this is 
  in live just with the v-spec and the various pectin SSI community 
  of this layered approach of building a solution and first 
  starting with the foundation and then building that next layer on 
  top the next layer on top once you have a credential in your 
  wallet is being able to pull that credential out of the wallet a 
  lot of times you want to pull the.
Ganesh Annan:   Credential out and then immediately verify it but 
  when we can.
Ganesh Annan:  I can just focus on can we pull this credential 
  you out of the wallet and can you mix and Max mix and match 
  different queries and are you able to support the queries from 
  different relying parties can we get that layer correct and then 
  we'll move to that verification piece so the choppy playground is 
  ready to demonstrate the ability to verify credentials using a 
  variety of very far back ends but if the direction the plugfest 
  is just to focus on the.
Ganesh Annan:   Piece that is the presentation request the.
Ganesh Annan:  So just wanted to put that out there thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you dash appreciate that thorsten you have 
  the floor.
Torsten: Thank you how about everybody since the last one is the 
  open ID Community as much great progress on the topic of testing 
  so perhaps would be good idea to use the official components test 
  from the open early foundation for the blacks us going forward 
  I'm not so I'm not sure why the timeline perhaps you could 
  elaborate about that but what's being done right now.
Torsten:  we're open a new Foundation.
Torsten: It was a compromise of being billed for open up you 
  fucking piece so I think it's really want to make sure that all 
  the bullets are in trouble I think that it would be good to use 
  that that set of test because it's based on the latest open at 
  e4v p implementers drop to the foundation just approved a couple 
  of weeks ago.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Quick quick question to you Torsten is the 
  compliance is the spec that you mentioned the test framework is 
  it interactive as in is it user attended or just automated.
Torsten: I think you can do both but I need to check.
Torsten: I mean the ultimate goal is to have an automatic test 
  but I guess you could also do it why are you asking.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  So just just to get an idea I think the 
  workflow for the plugfest that Sharon has in mind involves some.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Some user attended flows however I am a huge 
  fan of compatibility test Suites the existence of it for open and 
  e4v P is fantastic I definitely definitely think we should work 
  it into the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The plugfest okay so since since Gary also 
  just just acknowledge me and I was on the Queue I want to give 
  some context behind this discussion so picking.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Picking just the right amount of things to 
  test for a given plugfest is about dancing act right we're trying 
  to test something that is doable by the community we're trying to 
  not not to overload implementers but on the other hand we're also 
  trying to challenge implementers and so that that's why the 
  proposal on this particular slide we're wondering if this purse.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Hence the right amount of challenge 
  specifically focusing on the wallets not the verifiers of relying 
  parties can a wallet one out-of-band provision itself with that 
  it has the credentials to can it receive a presentation request 
  for more than one credential and can't can it sign.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Put together the verify with presentation and 
  sign it and handed back to the verifier so that's that's the bit 
  that this proposal is focused on so what I'm hearing from others 
  on this call what I hear people asking is maybe that's too simple 
  do we want to add also testing verifiers and there the question 
  is for Sharon for for jff staff and the community might that be 
  too complicated in the timeline that were.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   We're that we have so that's it over to you 
  Sharon.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Next on the queue.
Manu Sporny: +1 Sounds like a good place to start, adding 
  multiple verifiers is pretty simple wrt. VC Playground.
Sharon Leu:  That's right so just to clarify the question is 
  about whether we are going to add more protocols to support and 
  the answer is no so if you look at the form which is later in I 
  can flip through here let me just okay so I'll this is the 
  calendar here's a link to the form to fill out fill out this form 
  by June 5th at the end of the day for us in Eastern time we'll 
  try to let you know by the seventh as.
Sharon Leu:   As well as pick a tie.
Sharon Leu:  Technical discussion we're going to again hope to do 
  demo day ahead of iiw which is a little bit earlier this time 
  than it was last year so unfortunately you have just a little bit 
  less time but if you look at the questions that were asking what 
  we're saying is we're still only going to do those three 
  protocols we cut for a couple of reasons number one is because in 
  this community those are the three most popular ones but number 2 
  and more importantly for jmf as an.
Sharon Leu:   Organization is that in the education use case in 
  the United States those are the.
Dmitri Zagidulin: https://forms.gle/EYdZxML7JE3juK9a9
<dmitri_zagidulin> er sorry wrong form
Sharon Leu:  I have encountered part of this is because the 
  verifiable credentials are not as widely used yet but at the 
  moment those are the three most popular ones in the context of 
  the u.s. education use case and the ones where we know about 
  resources that exist so.
Dmitri Zagidulin: https://forms.gle/Nnc2fsgiyaMHbYkQA
Kerri Lemoie: :+1:
Sharon Leu:  It's okay so that's that's why there's three 
  protocols and that's also why we're going to notify people if we 
  see people who are using if we see a lot of interest in different 
  protocols that we have not considered we will do a little bit of 
  research and let people know if we think that there are resources 
  available sport that I see Kim in the kids so I can I'll turn it 
  over to you.
Geun-Hyung Kim:  Yeah so as many of you know this is the first 
  time that many of the protocols and Associated data models in you 
  know what were accomplishing on the exchange side that's the 
  first time they've really been exercised and interop effort like 
  this so you know to Sharon's point about controlling the 
  complexity you know we did not want to expand the scope too much 
  on the roll.
Geun-Hyung Kim:   Lying parties.
<manu_sporny> haha
Geun-Hyung Kim:  I look what would be ideal is if each Camp I 
  like the I like the transcriber it says lying parties which is a 
  good trip transcription but any case what would be ideal is if 
  there's an existing playground or like one can be made into 
  something that each Camp kind of agrees on because we are 100% 
  convinced that there will be different interpretations of the 
  specifications that are out there and so.
Geun-Hyung Kim:   This will this.
<tallted_//_ted_thibodeau_(he/him)_(openlinksw.com)> re-lying. 
  lying again. :-)
<niels_klomp> Exactly, that is why it would make sense to have 
  more than 2 "lying" party ;)
<niels_klomp> parties
Geun-Hyung Kim:  In itself will be a good forcing function to you 
  know get some more clarity there now if that doesn't exist say 
  like an open ID stack then then that's great but we do think that 
  there will be some confusion over that so you know it is possible 
  to sort of formally bring in the idea of multiple verifiers but 
  that might make things too complicated versus each group sort of.
Geun-Hyung Kim:  A representative one for this plugfest anyways 
  future plugfest we can get a lot more complicated bring in scope.
Sharon Leu:  Yeah that's right and I'm going to interrupt for 
  just a moment I think that is something that I meant to say that 
  can reminded me is we did do a bunch of research about whether we 
  can get like one Uber relying party in the wild or one or two to 
  come and partner with us in this effort but again because jmf is 
  you know us Workforce education oriented in our ecosystem there's 
  not a lot of use.
Sharon Leu:   Image of digital credentials like I said earlier 
  the.
Sharon Leu:  Stick is that there are about a million of them in 
  the wild like like probably like .1 percent of them are actually 
  used in big decisions they are just Collectibles and so part of 
  our goal and in some of the other projects that we are engaged in 
  we are trying to we work with communities of employers and 
  different decision makers on whether or not they would start 
  accepting digital Assets in some of the big decisions and we have 
  found that to be a.
Sharon Leu:   A highly uneven ecosystem and there are a number 
  of.
Sharon Leu:  Have PCC had put out a study as well as Northeastern 
  University put out a study where they looked at the different 
  kinds of technologies that are used by potential relying parties 
  in the US and it's complete it's very uneven and it's very hard 
  to hit that so the reducing complexity is making this trying to 
  reduce it from like a many too many too many sort of test to just 
  saying okay so we know that there are three protocols that are 
  not completely I mean.
Sharon Leu:   I think that this discussion about which protocol 
  is best.
Sharon Leu:  Technology stack will continue to go on for a little 
  while and while that is happening you know can you know employers 
  who are interested in experimenting or other relying parties look 
  on this and say like well at least if they decide on a particular 
  approach that they will have some clarity rather than it's a it's 
  when they look as a relying party into our ecosystem they all see 
  a lot of chaos so I know that that's ultimately unsatisfying but 
  I think there are some potential relying parties that are.
Sharon Leu:   Interested in watching one of them obviously is.
Sharon Leu:  And I can say like Department of Homeland Security 
  so they are an issuer but I think we've been having a lot of 
  really good conversations that are pretty promising about what 
  does it look like for them to also be relying parties and again 
  but again I think it's there's a lot of Chaos in in our ecosystem 
  right now which I think is healthy and it's a sign that this is 
  an active Community where really good work is being done let's 
  let's continue to do that for a little while and the fact that I 
  called it presentation request was probably a little bit 
  confusing so I apologize for that.
Sharon Leu:   But I think.
<kerri_lemoie> DIF Presentation Exchange: 
  https://identity.foundation/presentation-exchange/
Sharon Leu:  Being too is that we've introduced this idea that 
  your wallet needs to hold multiple credential types of verifiable 
  credentials as well so I think that you know again we're going to 
  pick this conversation up again I think at ccg on the 30th of 
  this month Also let's have this on the mailing list you know 
  we're not sure if we get this right exactly all the time.
Sharon Leu:   And you.
<kerri_lemoie> Please join the VC-EDU email list: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
Sharon Leu:  The good thing is that we have multiple chances at 
  this like this is not a one-and-done situation we might do this 
  again and continue to build on the work so I hope that that 
  addresses it and I see mommy's hands up but I don't know who's 
  next in line so I'll turn this back over to Kari to actually do 
  this.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you I'm actually next in line and I was 
  really only going to add to a Kidman and Sharon said mostly what 
  I was going to say but you know I think about this this plugfest 
  is sort of the rubber meets the road time right where we have 
  been trying to work on work towards verifying for a long time and 
  digital credentials and this is where we can establish examples 
  that are others can look at so this think of this as like the 
  foundational part ask.
Kerri Lemoie:   Effective of verifying or scaffolding for that so 
  that we can.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's adoption from here it's sort of a first step 
  in that direction - I think you are next.
Manu Sporny:  Go yeah just do speak really quickly to some of the 
  capabilities that at least the chappie playground can bring to 
  bear its and just to be transparent with everyone on kind of our 
  plans for the chappie playground we're adding oid for support 
  into the playground that's you know in the works as some of you 
  also saw we added the verifier back-end support for.
Manu Sporny:   Happy playground so.
Manu Sporny:  Are now which basically means that you can now use 
  the chappie playground to issue a variety of credentials into a 
  digital wallet hold them in the digital wallet that's what we did 
  in plugfest 2 and the new features are it has a verification 
  capability now which can connect to multiple different verifier 
  back end so I know that we're trying to kind of maybe not do that 
  because that might be a bridge too far in this plugfest.
Manu Sporny:   But I'm just conveying that.
Manu Sporny:  That mechanism exists where you can request 
  multiple different credentials or at least request a credential 
  right now not multiple ones request a credential and then it'll 
  be delivered to the chappy playground and then that credential 
  can be sent to a whole bunch of different verifier Atkins for 
  verification so that capability is there today in as I mentioned 
  you know or some variation of oid.
<dmitri_zagidulin> heh, Manu is implying - you can pre-game 
  Plugfest /4/, and test interop between verifiers / RPs
Manu Sporny:   For is going to be in.
Manu Sporny:  As well so we're going to be moving away from you 
  know calling it The Chap you playground it just calling it a VC 
  playground because it will support multiple protocols multiple 
  issuer back ends multiple verifier back ends and then we'll have 
  to talk about maybe adding this feature that allows you to 
  request multiple credentials at the same time so just an update 
  on where things are based on kind of what you've outlined here 
  Sharon it.
Manu Sporny:   It feels like.
Manu Sporny:  We should have most of that functionality there in 
  whatever's missing you know whatever comes about is part of this 
  discussion we could probably add fairly quickly that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks buddy I shared this no one in the queue 
  right now you've seen my other things like today.
Dmitri Zagidulin: https://forms.gle/Nnc2fsgiyaMHbYkQA
Sharon Leu:  Okay I just I feel like I just have to other things 
  but I do want to say again on the screen slide here's our general 
  calendar click on this form submit your information as quickly as 
  possible but you know by June we're going to try to notify 
  everyone by June 7 so like almost immediately after we're going 
  to set up another like dedicated technical conversation we're 
  going to set up the slack channels again if.
Sharon Leu:   People want them.
Sharon Leu:  We're going to work towards demo day on being on 
  October 9th so that's the general calendar I know also that we're 
  still working on the agenda items for what would be a good 
  conversation for us to have that the ccg meeting on the 30th of 
  this month I think the co-chairs were generous enough to give us 
  some time to talk about the VC as you going zone so this I think 
  is a potential for what we could continue talking about the thing 
  that I wanted to talk about with this so you know.
Sharon Leu:   I think that we talked a little bit about how.
Sharon Leu:  Is the fake playground here higher but I think and I 
  did allude to this like I am interested in I think I'll double 
  down and like Carrie said which is that we want to increase 
  adoption and again this.
Sharon Leu:  Okay so this is this is also where you know because 
  jff is not a technology company we don't specifically focus on 
  standards development we don't do any of the kind of work that 
  you do on this call but what we do is we try to think about how 
  can we build up the entire ecosystem and as again as we were 
  doing some research on verifiers and use of digital credentials 
  one of the key things is that building the demand for you.
Sharon Leu:   Is of digital credentials.
Sharon Leu:  Is something that needs to be done it's not only 
  that credentials are issued in a digital format obviously PDFs is 
  not where we're about on this call but it's encouraging our 
  stakeholders to see the bigger picture of what it would look like 
  for their credentials to be verifiable credentials and so we are 
  hoping in addition to the fake credentials that we have that we 
  will be able to use real digital verifiable credentials will give 
  some exposure to a lot of organizations.
Sharon Leu:   Patients who are issuing.
Sharon Leu:  So even though we are not bringing issuers into the 
  plugfest specifically like we did last time we are looking for 
  credentials to make into verify credentials to put into either of 
  these players so that the organization's themselves that create 
  these credentials and organizations that would rely on some of 
  these credentials would be able to get some exposure to this 
  community to test it out in some of your wallets and to really 
  start.
Sharon Leu:   Art understanding the process of what that might 
  look like.
Sharon Leu:  I meant to to actually implement this kind of 
  Technology stack so I think that this is a little bit of where 
  we're going and so if you would like to let us know like a few 
  people have already told us a number we have in addition to our 
  to fake credentials some potential candidates for some verifiable 
  credentials that would be optional so what we're saying is you 
  have to use the two fake credentials that we have so the jmf 
  plugfest three credential.
Sharon Leu:   Lin an OB 3D three formats you're going to use.
Sharon Leu:  He is identity document in their format of a VC and 
  then you're going to pick from a list of these credentials that 
  were going to make into verifiable credentials one of the 
  examples is we may use a European verifiable credential in the LM 
  model maybe it depends on if that becomes json-ld soon ish right 
  so we might get one of those we've been talking with people who 
  issue occupational.
Sharon Leu:  But nationally in the US that are also relevant 
  internationally and a number of these other types of credentials 
  that are real that contribute to our use case but that actually 
  has impact on whether or not an individual can pursue opportunity 
  moving forward so again this is because our organization is 
  focused on the impact and we want to drive demands and we know 
  that there's a lot of Education that needs to happen that's not 
  just how to how does one build this credential or this wallet or 
  make some of the.
Sharon Leu:   Plug-and-play work so that's a little bit of the 
  complexity that we're adding for our own.
Sharon Leu:  You have an idea of a credential that you know about 
  in the wild that you think is a really high impact credential 
  that we should work with those groups either the issue in groups 
  or the verifying groups to you know turn these into verifiable 
  credentials that we can use for the purposes of plugfest 3 then 
  you know click on that link and and write a little bit about it 
  and we'll follow up with you and that is the last thing that I 
  have to say about this so back to you Kerry.
Kerri Lemoie:  Make sure I'm going to um add a couple things to 
  where you just said and ask you a question when is that keeping 
  in mind that we did only one BC format throughout the plugfest so 
  far so for plugfest one in plugfest to we did open badges 3 and 
  the Sharon just said we're introducing another format and so that 
  would be two that's different at the change of the world will 
  have to do is to accommodate a different format and you can 
  expect that as you can.
Kerri Lemoie:   Time as a wallet there's going to be more and 
  more of these so this.
Kerri Lemoie:  The opportunity to start thinking through how your 
  software can accommodate the different formats and be flexible in 
  that way Sharon wouldn't question for you this this third 
  credential or these other credentials would these be an open 
  badges format or do we not know yet we not decided.
Sharon Leu:  I think it's unknown / undecided.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so stay tuned for that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey don't see anybody else in the queue Dimitri 
  and Sonny I'm just going to say a couple of things about BC edu 
  just to you all know we are here to support the slugfest and 
  provide resources we have the mailing list to ask questions and 
  here to help us be successful just like we did for the previous 
  two so if there's any other questions you have after this call 
  feel free to reach out to us be sure to publish use minutes as 
  soon as I can.
Kerri Lemoie:   And so that we have this in the mail.
Kerri Lemoie:  You can respond to that or just write the mailing 
  list I yourself feel free to reach out to us.
<sharon_leu> Mailing list: public-vc-edu@w3.org
Kerri Lemoie:  It's money and Dimitri do you have anything you'd 
  like to add to that.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> great work all!
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The only thing I'd like to add is so far we 
  haven't seen much respondents from the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Did come to Camp so if the come to is an 
  important protocol to what you're doing.
<simone_ravaioli> All good on my side.
<kerri_lemoie> Can subscribe to the vc-edu list here: 
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Then you should recommend some implementers to 
  come forth and and fill out the form thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  Signature x on it.
<niels_klomp> The problem with didcomm v2 is that Aries 
  implementers have no problem showing interop
<niels_klomp> The rest of the world does
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay I don't see anybody else in the queue Sharon 
  so if I'm everyone is okay for now this is our kickoff meeting 
  and we will all be in touch about the next call please do join us 
  on May 30th because we will be reviewing some of this but 
  guaranteed they'll probably be some new information there and 
  maybe maybe hopefully some demos from but there may be so I will 
  be in touch thank you everybody have a great week.
<niels_klomp> Thanks all
<taylor_kendal_(lef)> *ty all... and to our robot overlords for 
  re-lying and pointing out the need for this work :)
<dmitri_zagidulin> @Niels lol nice
<manu_sporny> Thanks all! :)

Received on Tuesday, 16 May 2023 15:02:19 UTC