[MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-02-06

Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-02-06-vc-education/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-02-06-vc-education/audio.ogg

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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-02-06

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Feb/0002.html
Topics:
  1. IP Note
  2. Call Notes
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements & Reminders
  5. VC-EDU Public Google Calendar
  6. Open Agenda
  7. Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine) - Open Badge publisher
  8. Phil_L_(P1) - VC playground & Experience You
  9. Manu_Sporny - ECDSA Cryptosuite
  10. Sharon_Leu - Plugfest 3
  11. Anthony_F._Camilleri - European Learning Model
Organizer:
  Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
  Our Robot Overlords
Present:
  Kerri Lemoie, Kaliya Young, John Kuo, Sheri Myrick-ASU, David 
  Baumgartner, Stuart Freeman, Simone Ravaoli, Sharon Leu, Rob 
  Coyle, Phil L (P1), Jeff O - HumanOS, Xander / ASU Pocket, Nis 
  Jespersen , Geun-Hyung, Tayken (LEF), Anthony Camilleri, Dmitri 
  Zagidulin, Colin Reynolds, Ed Design Lab, Eric Shepherd, Chris 
  Webber, xander - ASU/Pocket, Manu Sporny, David Ward, Keith 
  Kowal, Deb Everhart, Jeanne Kitchens, Credential Engine, Shiren, 
  Phil Barker, Kayode Ezike, Sam Smith, Taylor (LEF), Nate Otto, 
  Jim Kelly, James Chartrand, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Jim Goodell, 
  Brooke Lipsitz, Brian, Jake, Susan Stroud, Bob Sopko, Marty Reed, 
  PL, BRIAN

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
David_Baumgartner: Recording is on.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everybody Welcome to the verifiable 
  credentials for Education task force Monday February 6th our 
  agenda today that can open Agenda so we've asked the community to 
  bring their topics and once we get to that part of the call will 
  explain how you could add those topics to the queue.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie:  A few of the the boilerplate items first one is my 
  P note at the w3c you must be a member to to contribute any 
  substitute of work to the standards this isn't a standard called 
  This is a community called but in case you are working on those 
  standards in the agenda email that goes out and I'm the link in 
  the chat you will see information on how to become a member.
Kerri Lemoie:   Next call not recorded.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie:  We have a robot transcriber and we are also 
  recording the audio we do have some video that is taken although 
  we haven't really explored that as much yet but it is happening 
  so just be aware that all of these are recorded and it's so that 
  you can follow up but also so that others who can't make the 
  caulk and see what's going on and learn from our conversations.
Kerri Lemoie:   On these calls.
Kerri Lemoie:  Q system so we put Q Plus in the chat and left 
  hand side of gypsies that q+ like I'm doing right now and that 
  adds you to the queue you could remove yourself from the queue by 
  hitting the cue - if you have a topic that you would like to talk 
  about in you understand what that topic is you hit Q Plus and 
  then type in your topic which you will see It'll come in handy as 
  part of our open Agenda discussion.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie:  Is there anybody new to the call today or anybody 
  who's been for a while and here for a while would like to 
  introduce themselves or reintroduce themselves so why don't you 
  add yourself to the queue because.
David_Baumgartner: So where do we find the Q holidays.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yep in the chat on the left hand side I've Just 
  Seen just type Q Plus now we'll add you to the queue.
David_Baumgartner: Very good thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Would you like to introduce yourself David.
David_Baumgartner: Yes that David Bumgarner co-founder of 
  software platform called smart Eddie wallet which is a digital 
  credentials wallet for Learning and experience records lers that 
  also captures learning sorry skills and competencies and helps 
  people and employers map out a bridge between the skills the 
  workforce has and the skills that they need for the jobs the 
  employee.
David_Baumgartner:  you will have to either today or next year 
  let's say.
David_Baumgartner: So delighted to join thank you Kerry.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you David.
Kerri Lemoie:  Does anybody else would anybody else like to 
  introduce themselves if that we can move on to announcements does 
  anybody have any announcements anything they'd like to share with 
  us before we get started on the main topic if so you could add 
  yourself to the queue right now with the q+.

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie:  Manu you have the floor.
Manu Sporny:  I think scary couple of reminders the first one is 
  the verifiable credentials working group meeting the face-to-face 
  one is happening in Miami next week it is going to be Tuesday 
  Wednesday Thursday if you want to attend in person it's probably 
  a bit too late to ask but might not hurt if you still want to 
  come you don't have to be a member of the group to attend but you 
  do need permission from the chairs and.
Manu Sporny:   That we don't have a ton of outside observers it.
Manu Sporny:  Probably still with.
Manu Sporny:  The realm of possibility get in otherwise you can 
  request to attend remotely we will we should have remote tools 
  and probably be like a zoom thing that you connect to those 
  meetings will be happening all day Tuesday half day Wednesday and 
  all day Thursday with and fairly packed agenda of things to go 
  through that's announcement one the second announcement is that.
<manu_sporny> EdDSA Data Integrity Cryptosuites Specification 
  adopted: https://github.com/w3c/vc-di-eddsa
Kerri Lemoie: :Clap:
Manu Sporny:  With a huge thanks to this group the Edwards curve 
  crypto sweet the Eds a Cryptid sweet was adopted last week by the 
  verifiable credential working group I'll put a link in the chat 
  Channel there that is the that is the crypto sweet that we used a 
  lot of us used for the jff plugfest number two and my.
Manu Sporny:   Station is will continue to use it.
Manu Sporny:  FF plugfest 3 which we can talk about today that's 
  it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey thanks morning.
<xander_-_asu/pocket> huzzah!
Kerri Lemoie:  A clear you are you have the floor please.
Kaliya Young:  Oh my goodness hi I just wanted to share again the 
  APAC digital identity unconference inspired by IW happening in 
  Bangkok Thailand March 1 March 1 is just an evening and it's two 
  full days March 2nd and 3rd on Friday Thursday and Friday.
Kaliya Young:  So if you are based in that region are listening 
  later to this call or you have colleagues in your organization's 
  or networked in that region it's a great opportunity to connect 
  with the communities working on to decentralize it an Indian and 
  regular identity systems as well we purposely made it broader 
  than just these Technologies we got the head of engineering 
  Formosa.
Kaliya Young:  Yeah folks from all of many countries in Asia 
  already signed up so it's great the I'm putting on an event 
  called the thoughtful Biometrics Workshop which is now been 
  condensed down to one day March 16th week making a space for 
  academics and Industry folks and Civil Society folks to talk 
  about those Technologies and their implications and then regular 
  iaw is coming up April.
Kaliya Young:  April 18th to 20th in Mount Mountain View 
  California.
Kerri Lemoie: IIW: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
Kaliya Young:  Registrations open we're really committed to 
  accessibilities of prices and issue please reach out to us and 
  we'll make sure you can come and that's it thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Kaliya.

Topic: VC-EDU Public Google Calendar

Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see anybody else in the queue for 
  announcements I have one big announcement as I said this out an 
  email last week but maybe not everybody is on that list too can 
  see this me if I we've created a public calendar.
Kerri Lemoie:  You and me.
Kerri Lemoie:  The which had for you.
Kaliya Young: https://www.apacdigitalid.org/
<kerri_lemoie> vc-edu public calendar: 
  https://calendar.google.com/calendar/u/0/embed?src=public.vc.edu@gmail.com
Kaliya Young: https://www.thoughtfulbiometrics.org/
Kerri Lemoie:  What we did was we published the not the topics 
  for who's hosting every week up until I think I got we got 
  through Labor Day so you'll see if you look at this calendar who 
  I miss hosting which weeks which we would like to host an open 
  Agenda.
Kerri Lemoie:   Holidays and.
Kaliya Young: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
Kerri Lemoie:  That type of stuff and and the way we hope this is 
  useful is when you could use this calendar and add it to your so 
  you have this call in your calendar which was most kind of hard 
  to do before but also you could see who's hosting and if you have 
  something you think you would like to present a topic that you're 
  interested in and you think one of us would be the more 
  appropriate host for that that topic you can reach out to us 
  individually and so also know that like this isn't set in stone 
  right these things could change.
Kerri Lemoie:   Could be that weeks get canceled or you know our 
  schedules.
Kerri Lemoie:  Clash or we need to.
Kerri Lemoie:  In two weeks or something but this is sort of a 
  sort of like a guidepost for the cause for the coming week.

Topic: Open Agenda

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay if everyone is ready to buy don't get to our 
  main topic unless anybody has anything else and of course just 
  put yourself in the queue if you do do it this week we decided to 
  an open Agenda please like to try and do this monthly if possible 
  as co-chairs we could always bring topics that we are interested 
  in but we know that a lot of you are busy and you're working on 
  things and you're trying to understand what's going on and you 
  have topics that you would like to bring maybe not present a 
  whole call but maybe you just want to talk about.
Kerri Lemoie:   Out something that's on your mind and you know or 
  ask questions so today is the first time.
Kerri Lemoie:  We're going to.
Kerri Lemoie:  It is open Agenda and the way we'd like to do it 
  is if you have a topic that you would like to bring up just type 
  I'm going to put an example in the chap do a Q Plus and then the 
  topic so say Q Plus and I'm going to put plugfest here but press 
  3 because I know that's one because it came up in the email list 
  and then we will have it in the queue and and what's great about 
  that is if you do Q Plus and then the topic when we're doing the 
  minutes later we'll be able to link this topics so.
Kerri Lemoie:   Oh it's very helpful if you could do that.

Topic: Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine) - Open Badge publisher

Kerri Lemoie:  Deb Everhart from  credential engine I see you or 
  in the queue.
Kerri Lemoie:  You have the floor.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Thank you so I'm not sure if 
  everyone on the call knows credential engine I'm not going to 
  give a long intro but a couple of key points that are relevant to 
  what we like to talk about today credential engine is a 
  non-profit and we developed a credential transparency description 
  language is an open schema and support the registry which is an 
  online way of long-term storage for data that's in CTL.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  we do not.
<jeanne_kitchens,_credential_engine> Jeanne_Kitchens:present+
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Products I want to be clear 
  about that we're not a product company but we do have tools for 
  converting data to see TBL and being able to publish it to the 
  registry so that's context for the what we would like to show 
  today which should take less than 10 minutes and it's our new 
  batch publisher so the reason.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  in for this.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): This new capability is that as 
  we know badges are very widely used our research shows that 
  there's over 75 million badges that have been issued in the world 
  and currently about 430,000 offered in the us alone and yet many 
  of those badges are undervalued because people don't understand 
  what they mean and so we advocate for using CT DL both within 
  Badges and also.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  so being able to use the 
  alignment Field in.
<kerri_lemoie> If you put yourself in  response to this topic 
  (Credential Engine, please add yourself as "q+ credential engine" 
  so we can call on you as part of this topic.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): You linked to data that's in 
  CTL that is linked data that contextualizes that badge in a lot 
  of ways to skills Pathways other credentials and courses Etc and 
  that's always been possible but we've just made a tool to make it 
  a lot easier so if there are any questions about the context I'm 
  happy to answer them and then Jean he's going to show us.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  the short demo.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Thank you Jeff and I just 
  wanted to make sure my microphone connected.
Kerri Lemoie:  We can hear you sounds good Jeanne.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Great okay good um I'll go 
  ahead and then assuming I can do a screen share.
<kerri_lemoie> chicken / Jeanne
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: I'm going to turn off my 
  camera but hello everyone thank you I'm Jeanne kitchens Chief 
  technology Services officer with credential engine and I'm going 
  to do a demonstration as Deb said as our new credential registry 
  badge publishing tool.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Hey I'm just want to verify 
  my screen sharing.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: What you're seeing here is we 
  have as Dimension we don't build products for end users but we 
  build do build tools for converting information and to see DL 
  link data structure to publish to the credential registry or on 
  the web and this is our sandbox and there's a bunch of tools in 
  here and I'm going to do the badge publisher application.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  so I've already logged in 
  and this is all.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Balazs open source code or 
  will be after our pilot which is going on now I've logged into 
  her system and you can see here that currently the to badging 
  platforms that we can directly pull down badges from our canvas 
  credentials and credibly and there's an option to paste the Json 
  format from any platform is going to focus on the canvas 
  credentials and I also want to mention that credential engine we.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  deal with personally 
  identifiable information.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: And we do.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Not issue badges so this is 
  just bringing in the badge class hopefully I put my correct 
  password in but I'm logging into canvas credentials and you'll 
  notice up here if I was in Canada and I had I didn't you badges I 
  could select for example the Canada platform but since I don't 
  issue badges I selected a test platform here I'm going to load 
  issuers and just so I can provide a little more context those of 
  you who are.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  familiar with canvas badges.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: To be Badger this is my test 
  account I've created three badges here I'm just going to click 
  one of them real quick those of you who are familiar with badges 
  would recognize the information you know that a user who creates 
  Badges and issues that would include with their badges you know a 
  name potentially an expiration date for the credential or the 
  badge description of it earning criteria and alignments and you 
  can see down here my alignments.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  are all.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: So I created three badges 
  with competency alignments I'm going to return back excuse me to 
  the tool here and you'll recognize I've selected my account I've 
  logged into it and what it's done is it's imported the three 
  badges from the canvas credentials into the credential registry 
  publishing system I can see them here if I click view Source I'm 
  seeing them in the canvas credentials.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  yes so I'm going to go 
  ahead.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Just imported that data into 
  the credential registry publishing system so now I can see my 
  three badges I can click edit if I want to and if I needed to for 
  some reason I could edit any of these properties that came in 
  with that badge but notice what happened when I ended that import 
  is it brought all those badge properties and as see gdl so we 
  have the name or tool.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  and a CT ID which is.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: A unique Global identifier 
  that is important when that gets published to the registry or to 
  the web and description credential type I'm just going to click 
  edit here as you can see you know just basically gives you the 
  option to edit something I'm not going to actually edit it and I 
  also want to point out I could change the badge type it's very 
  common use case for a badge to be used a proxy for another type 
  of credential and what you're seeing here are all the types of 
  credentials.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  in the ctd L.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Need to actually change that 
  the CDL also has a way to say if I did change it I could still 
  say this is really a certificate but it also is a is verified as 
  a badge so I could still have that description and then you see 
  the other badge properties here and you see the competencies and 
  so as you as all of you who are familiar with the open badge 
  specification know that.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  alignments could be just 
  about anything in my case these are.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is based on OB2 but we 
  have implementation notes for OB3
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: And you'll see there's a 
  toggle here to include them and I do want to include my 
  competencies with the import so I'm not going to change anything 
  I'm just going to click finish editing and move on to my next 
  step and now basically I'm just going to save all three of these 
  badges into the credential registry publishing system so now when 
  I'm viewing this credential I'm seeing it in the credential 
  registry publishing system I changed.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  nothing on my badging.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: That form nothing.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Been changed and I can see 
  all the data I brought in including those competencies here as 
  the ctd oh and then I can click approve and publish and I can 
  publish it to the credential registry so I saved all three of 
  them I can finish my publication and the last step in the process 
  that I'm going to show you here is you could say of all 
  alignments back to Canvas so I'll click that.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  that and you could.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: See here these if you if you 
  know that open batch type you'll recognize these properties 
  Target name URL description framework code and you can see that 
  it is URL in this case is to the credential registry you know 
  sandbox for the sandbox credential registry finder and production 
  of course it wouldn't be the sandbox this is just a testing 
  environment but the URL would be credential engine dot-org finder 
  and that way it's saving back.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  back to my badges so I 
  didn't edit any of.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Edge's not it wouldn't change 
  anything on the badging platform but I did add my alignment back 
  to the badge and here it is so now with the user follows that 
  alignment once I publish it to the registry there seen the data 
  in the registry this of course is a human-readable credential 
  finder page that will see here once it loads but the raw data in 
  the registry.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  if I were to.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Date in the registry I would 
  see it's the ctd L badge and now in our publishing system the 
  user can link into other credentials they could link this to 
  transfer value and so forth let me just stop there and see if W 
  want to add anything.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine:  stop my screen.
Jeanne_Kitchens,_Credential_Engine: Share unless there's anything 
  anybody wants me to revisit.
<phil_l_(p1)> Does this work with OBv2.1 and OBv3 badges?
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): That's great Genie there was 
  thank you so much Jeannie I love this time huh there was a 
  question in the chat about the OB version so because all the 
  badges that are out there currently are to this is based on Two 
  And we have implementation notes for 3 and is Cheney said before 
  this is all open source so we encourage having it be integrated 
  with multiple badge platforms.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you I did you put a link in the chat to on 
  the back of the shirt.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Yeah what was put in the in the 
  chat is a link to our comms kit which includes a video of the 
  demo that Genie just did the badge publisher itself is Young 
  pilot and should be available very soon.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's great I'm get.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Actually very soon not like 
  when a product company says happens I used to work for product.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay I'm glad you are in the queue again did you 
  have something else or is this the same topic.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): No it's the same thing.
<jeanne_kitchens,_credential_engine> We'll open up the GitHub 
  repository following the pilot to ensure any enhancements or bugs 
  are addressed.
Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Okay got it thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  You might have thank you - then that'll pull you 
  from the queue thank you sure feels wrong you put yourself in the 
  queue I believe score BC playground and also experience you 
  project.
<taylor_(lef)> Sorry, late anncmt… ETHDenver coming Feb 24 - Mar 
  5 (15k+ expected w a ton of vc/edu content). 
  https://www.ethdenver.com

Topic: Phil_L_(P1) - VC playground & Experience You

Phil_L_(P1): Right thank you we're just one of the things that's 
  becoming clear to us as we're experienced we're developing the 
  pilots associated with experience you which Colin has mentioned a 
  couple of times in Prior meetings to this call which is an 
  attempt to look at whether or not emerging AI models can 
  facilitate the transformation of unstructured data to structured 
  data such as a VC data model.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is a link to the 
  communications kit for the Badge publisher-- please feel free to 
  reuse these materials, and we'll keep this group posted on 
  availability 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1xBl0W-nFOYxrgZJqbA4lZgRSCpOUzryGA7aA3ChpFD0/edit?usp=sharing
Phil_L_(P1): Issue that has come up a number of times is the 
  teams that are that are interested in this may very well know a 
  lot about the AI world and there and the algorithms and such it 
  may know less about the verifiable credential wrote world and 
  we'd like to see if we can propose at least a discussion about 
  extending the utility of the VC playground or potentially Deb's 
  announcement suggest another way to view this which is connecting 
  in some fashion these.
<colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> SpruceID putting on a did:day 
  mini-summit at EthDenver as well: 
  https://blog.spruceid.com/announcing-did-day-an-exploration-of-decentralized-identity-at-ethdenver-buidlweek/
Phil_L_(P1): Have overlapping interest and an overlapping 
  communities in the case of experience you project we're trying to 
  collect a repository of hundreds if not thousands of things like 
  PDFs of transcripts and other unstructured representations of 
  awards that will be useful as input to a a tested AI.
Phil_L_(P1): But if that was also aligned with the VC playground 
  in some fashion because the target data models that were looking 
  at but things get transferred into our VCS and so having that 
  sort of come together in some fashion would seem to be a useful 
  thing for the community if we could do it without undue burden to 
  the case of the VC playground digital Bazaar which has been so 
  generous it at making that available to the to the VC community 
  and supporting a lot of the tools in it so.
Phil_L_(P1):  that's the topic and whether we.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> we would be very happy to 
  collaborate on this combination
Phil_L_(P1): Now over the winter just put that as a placeholder 
  to put into another meeting down the road is it that's up to you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Big Field one question I have for you when you say 
  ABC program did you mean the chappie but I.
Phil_L_(P1): The the choppy playground there's a whole bunch of 
  things that that digital tools and digital Bazaar has put 
  together in one place to be able to test the Integrity of the 
  data models with you know the their Fidelity there for developers 
  who are building these things to be able to to use and we'd like 
  to see about about one expanding the visibility that to it to 
  this.
Phil_L_(P1):  new project that I just.
Phil_L_(P1): Into but also we think that there is a wider 
  opportunity for this to become visible to the increasing interest 
  that is now emerging in the in the VC World both on the HR side 
  of things the HR open and and skills based hiring communities 
  that are interested in these pot and these spaces and potentially 
  others.
Kerri Lemoie:  I just sounds great amount of the I knew you're in 
  a queue next but you have anything any thoughts.
Manu Sporny:  Yes absolutely Phil Phil read my mind I was you 
  know as Deb was you know kind of talking through credential 
  engine and we were watching the demo I was trying to figure out 
  like is there a way for us to hook up kind of what credential 
  engines doing to the chappie playground or you know maybe.
Manu Sporny:   A broader verified.
Manu Sporny:  Potential playground that is definitely something 
  that we are planning on spending some time this year doing which 
  is basically trying to take us out of the critical path of 
  creating these credentials and trying to make it much more open 
  to the community we are planning on having like four years now we 
  as in the community that VC Edge u,v the the credentials 
  community group has has wanted this like.
Manu Sporny:  Examples repo and I think we're just on the cusp of 
  enabling that and that would be just a totally open in the 
  beginning GitHub repository that all the different companies can 
  kind of just dump content into like verifiable credential 
  templates and I was wondering if there's a way for us to type 
  pull from credential engine to get stuff into that into that 
  playground so that I mean so effectively the types of credentials 
  that we can issue starts.
Manu Sporny:   Going you know exponential maybe not exponential 
  but like you know ten.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> yes, we have example 
  credentials for all types of ed and training credentials
Manu Sporny:  Hundreds of different types of credentials that 
  could be issued through the playground so that when one of us in 
  the community needs to kind of show just an example a demo flow 
  or just wants to see if our product you know is conformant with 
  the stuff that's out there we'd be able to do it and we'd be able 
  to kind of work on this thing as a community so I think the 
  desire is absolutely there we are planning on you know trying to 
  start using like the BC examples Repository.
Manu Sporny:   We and credentials community group.
Manu Sporny:  To pull content from there and of course you know 
  the reason we kind of want to separate that repository out is is 
  so that other people can create their own playgrounds like maybe 
  there is a better one for like a playground specific for like 
  education credentials or a playground specific for like 
  government ID credentials or playground that's specific to supply 
  chain right so that kind of we can.
Manu Sporny:  Improve the amount of tooling that's available to 
  the community to test test interoperability and kind of show demo 
  so so yes absolutely like there's a huge desire to do that I 
  think Jeff the plugfest to really pushed kind of our need to show 
  that and I would imagine jff plugfest three is going to even 
  further kind of push those capabilities so now it's a matter of 
  kind of putting.
Manu Sporny:   Like putting the pieces together like credential 
  in.
Manu Sporny:  And it's awesome and we want to figure out a way to 
  pull that stuff into the playground so that we have the ability 
  to issue a much broader set of credentials and very interested in 
  collaborating on that I put myself on the queue for something 
  totally different though but I can take a break and come back 
  around to that later Carrie if.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's a York City Oklahoma.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thank you Manu, we're ready 
  for this collaboration!
<manu_sporny> Great to hear, Deb!
<kerri_lemoie> After Anthony - let's pause on the topics and if 
  there's time, we can add another. Thanks!
<manu_sporny> Only limiting factor is engineering bandwidth at 
  this point! :)
Phil_L_(P1): Can I just yeah I just wanted to add that data model 
  that we would like to include in the unstructured to structured 
  data Pilots for the AI side of stuff includes the Lem from the EU 
  Community I saw it and Anthony cammalleri is on the queue as well 
  we would like to be able to extend the our connection to the work 
  that.
Phil_L_(P1):  that's the terrific work going on in the EU.
Phil_L_(P1): In this concept of the playground as if possible and 
  maybe perhaps you can come in on that as well thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  And actually before I make you feel it in my name 
  Anthony are you in the queue to reply to this or do you have your 
  topic for the call.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> this is a discussion draft 
  that Phil Barker wrote for using CTDL in VCs/OBs 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ei7uxTeLs_vQPtMpRPx4KVZ-nQ46ySUlXpF1nzhgJUM/edit#heading=h.i33feeiez3el
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay thank you I might a year in the key twice do 
  you have two topics or just one.
Manu Sporny:  Yes the next one is a little shorter and is a is a 
  bit more down in the weeds but I'll try to cover it quickly so 
  with lots of things to this community we were able to get the 
  Edwards crypto sweet into the verifiable credentials working 
  group and that's great the for those of you that are not familiar 
  that Edward script or Suite is like a very modern.

Topic: Manu_Sporny - ECDSA Cryptosuite

Manu Sporny:  As bleeding edge as you can get and still get 
  something into production with you know the community so this 
  crypto sweet is in the newest draft of the nist standards for 
  acceptable cryptography so the good news there is like we're 
  ahead of the curve there in like we kind of Hit The Sweet Spot 
  there right we got it right as nist said yes we're going to 
  accept this but it's not built out.
Manu Sporny:   Tin products yet.
Manu Sporny:  Means that some of you that are trying to go into 
  production with verifiable credentials in the next two years or 
  going to have a hard time getting that deployed if for example 
  your customer like a university or a state government or federal 
  government requires you to do your cryptographic your 
  cryptography in something called Hardware security module so this 
  this is what these Hardware security modules look like they're 
  companies like thales just how you pronounce this.
Manu Sporny:   Is that sell Hardware into Data Centers.
Manu Sporny:  Cryptography so they've got these big you know 
  these computers 1u chassis they've got PCI cards they've got USB 
  devices in these go through a very lengthy qualification process 
  such that you know nation states or even universities depend on 
  these to do their digital signatures now these things do not have 
  EDSA built into them and they probably won't for another one to 
  two years or so.
Manu Sporny:  We'll need for ecdsa as well this is another type 
  of elliptic curve this thing has been around for like 15 plus 
  years right so this is what governments in universities use today 
  and this is just a heads up that we are planning on standardizing 
  this as well through the verifiable credentials working group but 
  people seem people have really focused on the Next Generation 
  cutting-edge stuff and not necessarily the boring like.
Manu Sporny:   This is already deployed.
Manu Sporny:  There's just this one that we're trying to get into 
  verifiable credentials working group The Hope is we are going to 
  try it in the next couple of months but we are going to need like 
  Partners to like other vendors to implement it as well it's 
  fairly easy to implement like it's already there and done and if 
  you've done EDSA doing ecdsa is like very very minor 
  modifications and changes but it's work that needs to be done so 
  I'm just giving a heads up that.
Manu Sporny:   You know we are looking.
Manu Sporny:  Companies to go yes we have government customers or 
  yes we have University customers or state governments where we 
  know that this is a requirement and so we want to help you know 
  push this standard through w3c as well so that's just a heads up 
  if you're interested in helping with that please let me know 
  that's it.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you buddy does anybody have any questions 
  for money before we move on to the next topic.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay we can always Circle back if we have 
  questions or mono we can always revisit this at a more dedicated 
  call if we need to it sometime.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey Sharon you have before now.
<sharon_leu> plugfest slides: 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1SuyKPLmb1KqLPEsfDnzaBtd1GpGjuHH9e04RoWDojC4/edit?usp=sharing

Topic: Sharon_Leu - Plugfest 3

Sharon Leu:  Great I am putting a slide deck I'm going to talk 
  very very fast this is just for discussion purposes only and I 
  will also try to share my screen screen sharing failed okay so 
  I'm going to just talk and I'd the slides are in the chat 
  essentially wanted to share a proposal so this is where we have 
  talked a lot oh thank you about what it is that we could do next 
  and.
Sharon Leu:   Here's where we landed and.
<david_baumgartner> @Manu: I'd be interested to help. Perhaps we 
  can set up a call. David   david.baumgartner@e-duproof.com
Sharon Leu:  Make sure to have a few like have share this hear 
  your comments before we make this official so here's our approach 
  that we are preparing and so just to review the next slide just 
  shares our overall goal so like why does an organization like 
  jobs for the future care about plugfest essentially our goal is 
  to build a functional learning and employment record which means 
  that individuals using these and Elly are through like you know 
  all of the things in the stack including the wall.
Sharon Leu:   It can store multiple credentials issued by 
  multiple issuers.
Sharon Leu:  Of control and choice over how they store and share 
  their credentials and obviously that the credentials themselves 
  demonstrate that we are able to then demonstrate some kind of 
  utility to the credentials ecosystem like for example credentials 
  are used for decision-making right so if you go to the next slide 
  this is where I think we have made some really great progress our 
  first plugfest we showed that there were many wallets actually 
  that can display verifiable credentials and that the.
Sharon Leu:   Giles themselves.
Sharon Leu:  Student are sort of useful in being unpacked this 
  most recent second plugfest we were able to demonstrate that 
  actually open badges for multiple issuers could be issued to a 
  wallet and that while it's could hold them and that issuers can 
  issue to multiple wallet type so I think that we have made some 
  really good progress towards the multiple issuers multiple 
  credentials and so I think that as we were thinking about what 
  the next step is if you look at slide 4 we heard a lot.
Sharon Leu:   Lot of really great ideas and the hard thing for us 
  to do is to think about what.
Sharon Leu:  Right small step versus what was a giant leap right 
  so some of the ideas that we had heard from you all and others 
  was that presentation exchange verification by relying party 
  while it to wallet semantic interoperability user experience were 
  all really important and we agree that all of them were important 
  but we needed to pick the right next one and so starting in slide 
  5 you'll see what is our proposal for plugfest 3 so plugfest 3 we 
  think is the right next small step.
Sharon Leu:   Does in order to have the entire sort of 
  presentation request use of the.
Sharon Leu:  I'm integration with applicant tracking systems or 
  student Information Systems all of that I think we need to First 
  focus on presentation exchange workflow so our proposed technical 
  exercise is a verifier request a set of credentials from the 
  holder holder selects three and this is just a number I made up 
  could be to write relevant credentials from the wallets the 
  holder presents to the verifier in form of verifiable 
  presentation and then the verifier is able to verify the 
  authenticity.
Sharon Leu:   City of the VP as well as the individual VCS so 
  that's our general.
<manu_sporny> Good, solid, realistic proposal!
<pl> This is a great next step!
Sharon Leu:  And and I guess we'll just run through these really 
  fast so inside six it's just our I think what we wanted to 
  control is the verifiable credentials were thinking that we would 
  provide the set of credentials to be used that we might provide 
  some sort of standardized issue a registry and that we would go 
  with the two protocols that really stood out from plug has to and 
  perhaps controversial e.d. emphasize unless they.
Sharon Leu:   Really bring their game face game.
Sharon Leu:  The like sort of did comforter call stuff that we 
  think that we still need to discuss is like what does the 
  verifier request to look like and is there a version of a 
  playground that we can invest in as a resource for this community 
  and then we think the timeline will still be about 3 to 4 months 
  of work and so if you think that this is the technical activities 
  are scoped to be like too hard so it would take something like 
  five months or too easy like you could do it in a weekend.
Sharon Leu:   That that is something that we would love feedback 
  on as well.
<pl> When  you say "verifier request" is the referencing the 
  query from the verifier asking for the credential types they wish 
  to see in the VP?
Sharon Leu:  And then finally how we want to think about 
  participation so again we want to emphasize the wallet 
  functionality like users of the wallet can curate verifiable 
  presentation and so we will focus on the presentation aspect so 
  most of the work we anticipate will be for the wallet 
  implementers we do want to start scoping verify or participation 
  even though we were talking about the playground because we 
  anticipate like the next small step after this being an 
  integration with really verifiers so we want their feedback as.
Sharon Leu:   Part of this process as well obviously develop some 
  tools that I'm very.
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> @PL Yes
<pl> @Simone  - thanks
Sharon Leu:  The future who do want to participate in this 
  verifiable credentials ecosystem could easily Implement in their 
  own context as well as a set of reference implementations that 
  people can take a look at to what mountain was saying earlier 
  like if we could pull some examples it might make it easier for 
  people to adopt so I'm going to stop talking realize this is 
  really fast and if anyone has any questions happy to engage 
  either now or later if there are other topics that people want to 
  discuss.
Kerri Lemoie:  Picture a testimony answered a question for Phil 
  but I thought we might just talk about it out loud anyway and he 
  says when you say verify request is this referencing the query 
  from the verifier asking for the credential types they wish to 
  see in the VP and it is a credential types or is it certain 
  credentials or Zach to be figured out.
Sharon Leu:  I think that we were saying credential okay so the 
  answer is yes and I think that the answer is that it's a type 
  like it's both that it's a type of credential but because we're 
  limiting the set of credentials it will be end up like 
  functionally being this specific example.
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see my name is are you in the queue for 
  this topic but look I say okay go ahead.
Manu Sporny:  Yes just to note we are adding verification to the 
  playground as we speak we took a risk and thought maybe plugfest 
  3 might have something to do with verification plus it's 
  something that the ecosystem needs anyway so we are actively 
  working on that right now meaning engineer's engaged writing code 
  in testing right now I don't have an ETA on that yet but.
Manu Sporny:   We're hoping where you know.
Manu Sporny:  Away from being able to go live with that in the 
  Hope was that we'd be able to set that up before plugfest three 
  kicked off clearly like we have no idea if that is going to line 
  up perfectly it's not going to line up perfectly like what you 
  already know that but we're very willing to like adjust to make 
  sure that it lines up and hopefully can be one of the tools 
  that's used for verification during plugfest three the other 
  thing that.
Manu Sporny:   We're actively working on is building in oid C2.
Manu Sporny:  Playground as well in an attempt to make it easier 
  on everyone so we should be able to support both of these 
  protocols through the playground and we should have verification 
  in the playground but I can't give it a date yet because our 
  engineering teams will probably kill me if I say the wrong date 
  so it's on its way just as a heads up in the hopes that it helps 
  us coordinate a bit better that's it.
Sharon Leu:  I think that's wonderful and I wonder if like 
  offline we can connect about what you think the estimated 
  timeline is and whether it actually like how much of a mismatch 
  it is.
Manu Sporny:  Yep that sounds sounds good and happy to make it 
  into a community discussion Community discussion as well so 
  either way.
Kerri Lemoie:  It's great - thank you so long are you also thank 
  you for podcaster.
PL: I just well I just wanted to can you hear me okay first of 
  all I think this is a terrific Next Step Sharon so this is really 
  helpful you made a brief comment but I'm not sure I can connect 
  it properly about the notion of this being part of the workflow 
  in the context of job skills and and and the job submission 
  workflow to an 80s system for example and in so I just wanted to 
  ask if you would.
PL:  make a further elaboration are you.
PL: As something that an 80s system would use something like VC 
  chappie as an API to to consume presentations and or the other 
  side of it when the DCA when the 80s passes information about 
  candidates that they've matched on to an HR is system a similar 
  process using a VP to pass data through a VC chappy interface.
<dmitri_zagidulin> (ATS = Applicant Tracking System, for HR)
Sharon Leu:  I think it could be any of those Phil I think I said 
  that quickly because it was as an example I think there are 
  definitely a ton of verifier and relying party endpoints and I 
  think that as like as we think about the next small step after 
  this I want to think about I'm really understanding the 
  requirements necessary to do any number of those and so I think 
  this will give us information that will allow us to find out more 
  information about how that integration would work whether with an 
  hras system.
Sharon Leu:   ATS system student information.
Sharon Leu:  Any of the other kinds of endpoints.
PL: Thank you that's helpful thanks.
Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you Sharon and Sharon if you want we 
  can work on a an email and you said we see I do this to keep 
  talking about this with the community as we get ready right thank 
  you okay don't see anything else here in the the Q about plugfest 
  so we have about lunar 15 minutes left so Anthony the floor is 
  yours for the remainder of the call.

Topic: Anthony_F._Camilleri - European Learning Model

<kerri_lemoie> European Data Model being released this March
<kerri_lemoie> V2 European Digital Credentials Infrastructure -- 
  moving into JSON-LD (from XML)
<kerri_lemoie> Released as an online webservice -- anyone can 
  issue to wallets, open source code, Docker images, online 
  verifier.
<kerri_lemoie> Two flavors of credentials: 1) anyone can 
  register, 2) trusted issuer credentials linked to trusted issuer 
  regsitry.
<kerri_lemoie> Visual representation in the credentials
<kerri_lemoie> Issuer will be the signer but can represent many 
  issuers.
<kerri_lemoie> Wallets can extend expiration every 3-4 years.
https://github.com/european-commission-empl/European-Learning-Model/
<kerri_lemoie> 6 Million user wallets
<kerri_lemoie> Mapping credentials against the ESCO DB.
<kerri_lemoie> Translated into 30 languages (all EU languages & 
  neighboring countries)
<pl> Great to hear a timeline for DID support in the EU
<kerri_lemoie> No support for DIDs in March but will aim to do 
  this by end of year EBSI & OIDC
<colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> Thought he was going to say 
  "integrating DID support until the end of time" 😂
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> EBSI:DID method supported initially
<kerri_lemoie> Launching an AI that does natural language 
  processing
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks @Simone
<kerri_lemoie> (robot not working for Anthony)
https://skillman.eu/escodatabase/
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> ELMO - 
  https://github.com/emrex-eu/elmo-schemas
<kerri_lemoie> Integrating with ELMO and open to other mapping 
  integrations
<manu> Anthony and the EU gets the "VC Overachiever of the Year" 
  award for 2023... and it's not even March yet! :P
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> mapping collaboration between 
  ELM and CTDL would be very useful
<nate_otto> I will definitely be going back to listen to the 
  recording of your presentation, Anthony, to take detailed notes.
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> standing ovation
Kerri Lemoie:  And that was an incredible update I hope we can 
  get you back here early March to soon as you're ready to really 
  dig into this for us because that was a lot of information and 
  super exciting stuff that's great Phil we have you in please 
  happen if you took yourself out okay we'll stop there but yeah 
  that is excellent and also I just have one question just keeping 
  an eye on time is a lot of us in the u.s. space.
Kerri Lemoie:   I've been talking a lot about open Badges and 
  could you talk a little bit about.
Kerri Lemoie:  The alignment between those two.
Kerri Lemoie:  Within the work you've been doing I'm sorry and 
  with with open badges.
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> with OB3 being VC that integration 
  should be easier...if not automatic
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges support on roadmap --planning for a 
  data model mapping & wallet should accept different VCs like Open 
  Badges.
Kerri Lemoie:  Excellent thank you.
<pl> Wonderful meeting Kerri - what an update!
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey everybody that was great for a first try doing 
  it open Agenda I'd like to thank all of you for all of these rich 
  topics between a badge credentialing and crypto sweets and yeah 
  and what's going on in Europe holy cow there's a lot of stuff 
  thank you very much looking forward to doing this again and I'm 
  Odin Susan I see you in the queue would you like to say something 
  okay.
Kerri Lemoie:   All right then.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thanks all! so many great 
  opportunities for collaboration!
Kerri Lemoie:  Have an excellent week and I will see you again 
  soon thank you.
<taylor_(lef)> Tyty!!

Received on Wednesday, 8 February 2023 20:48:32 UTC