W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-credentials@w3.org > January 2022

Re: Ideals meet Implementations - Blockchains, NFTs, Decentralization, Oh My!

From: Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 17:06:32 -0500
Message-ID: <CAGJKSNRvZpbdgrpJCNBbxWDb-=d6Zz-fPS9m3A0Uxk0CEJiuyg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
Cc: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>, W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Adrian,
In that linked post you state:

> With respect to the UDHRs, I would point to
> 12 (privacy and confidentiality), 13 (anonymity), 14 (limit the reach of
> DHS and other state actors), 17 (the right to associate with and delegate
> to others), 18 (associate with and delegate to communities one chooses), 20
> (association, again), 21 (secret elections), 22 (anonymity), 23 (trade
> unions as delegates), 24 (burden of managing decisions in an asymmetric
> power relationship with the state or with dominant private platforms), 29
> (duties to and scope of the community).


I think Bob may have been asking for some direct links, as I am explicitly
asking for now.  Basically [citation needed]

Mike Prorock
CTO, Founder
https://mesur.io/



On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 4:16 PM Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
wrote:

> Yes, Bob. Here are some references to UDHR
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jan/0017.html
>
> Adrian
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us> wrote:
>
>> Adrian,
>> You wrote: "Burdening the user to both store and control their credential
>> using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's *right to
>> delegate*."
>>
>> Could you please explain what you mean by the "right to delegate?" Is
>> this "right" either enumerated within or implied by some existing
>> constitution or international document such as the Universal Declaration of
>> Human Rights? While I certainly agree that there are many things that users
>> should be able to delegate, I'm not sure how one would argue for an
>> entitlement to delegate which is so fundamental that one would call it a
>> "right."
>>
>> bob wyman
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:29 PM Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anil,
>>>
>>> Here's the beginning and the conclusion that relates to W3C SSI work:
>>>
>>> If we do want to change our relationship to technology, I think we’d
>>> have to do it intentionally. My basic thoughts are roughly:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>    1. *We should accept the premise that people will not run their own
>>>>    servers by designing systems that can distribute trust without having to
>>>>    distribute infrastructure.* This means architecture that
>>>>    anticipates and accepts the inevitable outcome of relatively centralized
>>>>    client/server relationships, but uses cryptography (rather than
>>>>    infrastructure) to distribute trust. One of the surprising things to me
>>>>    about web3, despite being built on “crypto,” is how little cryptography
>>>>    seems to be involved!
>>>>
>>>> This is also the point I've been trying to make from a human rights
>>> perspective: *Burdening the user to both store and control their
>>> credential using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's right to
>>> delegate*.
>>>
>>> It could also be counter-productive to adoption of our work, including
>>> "crypto", on standardized digital credentials. One of the places I
>>> experience this personally is when the vast majority of government agencies
>>> insist on me providing them with "Release Forms" and do not accept the
>>> documents themselves. I agree that most private verifiers do accept the
>>> documents but even they are likely to balk at redacted "presentations".
>>>
>>> - Adrian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:34 PM Philipp Schmidt <phi.schmidt@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Moxie’s piece is excellent. I also found the comparison to web 1.0 and
>>>> 2.0 in Tim O’Reilly’s article useful:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.oreilly.com/radar/why-its-too-early-to-get-excited-about-web3/
>>>>
>>>> I would like to read more thoughtful and well argued pro-web3 articles,
>>>> appreciate links from this community!
>>>>
>>>> P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:28 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@asu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anil: Moxie is the founder of Whisper Systems, acquired back in
>>>>> Twitter in 2011. Later he developed Signal (the secure messaging app), etc.
>>>>> A similar critique of web3 was published recently by Jeff Galloway (a
>>>>> polarizing voice for many to be sure) at
>>>>> https://www.profgalloway.com/web3/
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>> *e: *pdlong2@asu.edu
>>>>> Adaptive Learning Library Consultant
>>>>> *org:* EdPlus/ASU
>>>>> https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience
>>>>> *SNS:* https://www.linkedin.com/in/longpd
>>>>> <https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 12:06 PM, John, Anil <anil.john@hq.dhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the continuous discussions around
>>>>> centralization/de-centralization in our community, I found this essay by
>>>>> Moxie Marlinspike …
>>>>>
>>>>> My first impressions of web3
>>>>> https://moxie..org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html__;!!BClRuOV5cvtbuNI!TWHO5okUoNLRfejX8R4fouQNtXHpePRJgCEMSTTdyJyd1YeYLaovlTtxC0oRLOgLPpNr$__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlLhFxxsU$>
>>>>>
>>>>> … to have aspects that have relevance to the DID/VC work.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don’t know who Moxie Marlinspike is, recommend doing a bit of
>>>>> due diligence to find out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Anil
>>>>>
>>>>> Anil John
>>>>> Technical Director, Silicon Valley Innovation Program
>>>>> Science and Technology Directorate
>>>>> US Department of Homeland Security
>>>>> Washington, DC, USA
>>>>>
>>>>> Email Response Time – 24 Hours
>>>>>
>>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlcTnIC1M$>
>>>>> <image004.jpg>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
Received on Tuesday, 18 January 2022 22:06:57 UTC

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