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Re: Ideals meet Implementations - Blockchains, NFTs, Decentralization, Oh My!

From: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2022 16:14:01 -0500
Message-ID: <CANYRo8jPbFvi3K5N-oS+EGw5MS6TQhp_1Txrxa3okxFDxfuVtA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us>
Cc: W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
Yes, Bob. Here are some references to UDHR
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2022Jan/0017.html

Adrian

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 3:56 PM Bob Wyman <bob@wyman.us> wrote:

> Adrian,
> You wrote: "Burdening the user to both store and control their credential
> using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's *right to
> delegate*."
>
> Could you please explain what you mean by the "right to delegate?" Is this
> "right" either enumerated within or implied by some existing constitution
> or international document such as the Universal Declaration of Human
> Rights? While I certainly agree that there are many things that users
> should be able to delegate, I'm not sure how one would argue for an
> entitlement to delegate which is so fundamental that one would call it a
> "right."
>
> bob wyman
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 2:29 PM Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anil,
>>
>> Here's the beginning and the conclusion that relates to W3C SSI work:
>>
>> If we do want to change our relationship to technology, I think we’d have
>> to do it intentionally. My basic thoughts are roughly:
>>
>>>
>>>    1. *We should accept the premise that people will not run their own
>>>    servers by designing systems that can distribute trust without having to
>>>    distribute infrastructure.* This means architecture that anticipates
>>>    and accepts the inevitable outcome of relatively centralized client/server
>>>    relationships, but uses cryptography (rather than infrastructure) to
>>>    distribute trust. One of the surprising things to me about web3, despite
>>>    being built on “crypto,” is how little cryptography seems to be involved!
>>>
>>> This is also the point I've been trying to make from a human rights
>> perspective: *Burdening the user to both store and control their
>> credential using a "holder" principle is a violation of a person's right to
>> delegate*.
>>
>> It could also be counter-productive to adoption of our work, including
>> "crypto", on standardized digital credentials. One of the places I
>> experience this personally is when the vast majority of government agencies
>> insist on me providing them with "Release Forms" and do not accept the
>> documents themselves. I agree that most private verifiers do accept the
>> documents but even they are likely to balk at redacted "presentations".
>>
>> - Adrian
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:34 PM Philipp Schmidt <phi.schmidt@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Moxie’s piece is excellent. I also found the comparison to web 1.0 and
>>> 2.0 in Tim O’Reilly’s article useful:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.oreilly.com/radar/why-its-too-early-to-get-excited-about-web3/
>>>
>>> I would like to read more thoughtful and well argued pro-web3 articles,
>>> appreciate links from this community!
>>>
>>> P
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:28 PM Phillip Long <pdlong2@asu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anil: Moxie is the founder of Whisper Systems, acquired back in Twitter
>>>> in 2011. Later he developed Signal (the secure messaging app), etc. A
>>>> similar critique of web3 was published recently by Jeff Galloway (a
>>>> polarizing voice for many to be sure) at
>>>> https://www.profgalloway.com/web3/
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> *e: *pdlong2@asu.edu
>>>> Adaptive Learning Library Consultant
>>>> *org:* EdPlus/ASU
>>>> https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience
>>>> *SNS:* https://www.linkedin.com/in/longpd
>>>> <https://edplus.asu.edu/what-we-do/orchard-adaptive-learning-experience>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 18, 2022, at 12:06 PM, John, Anil <anil.john@hq.dhs.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Given the continuous discussions around
>>>> centralization/de-centralization in our community, I found this essay by
>>>> Moxie Marlinspike …
>>>>
>>>> My first impressions of web3
>>>> https://moxie..org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://urldefense.us/v3/__https:/moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html__;!!BClRuOV5cvtbuNI!TWHO5okUoNLRfejX8R4fouQNtXHpePRJgCEMSTTdyJyd1YeYLaovlTtxC0oRLOgLPpNr$__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlLhFxxsU$>
>>>>
>>>> … to have aspects that have relevance to the DID/VC work.
>>>>
>>>> If you don’t know who Moxie Marlinspike is, recommend doing a bit of
>>>> due diligence to find out.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Anil
>>>>
>>>> Anil John
>>>> Technical Director, Silicon Valley Innovation Program
>>>> Science and Technology Directorate
>>>> US Department of Homeland Security
>>>> Washington, DC, USA
>>>>
>>>> Email Response Time – 24 Hours
>>>>
>>>> <image002.jpg>
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IrG5_q6AE6qea1FemPCOy_y8YEw9na8etw2kGHXAB8UhTKiwV9Y0BRQlcTnIC1M$>
>>>> <image004.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Received on Tuesday, 18 January 2022 21:14:25 UTC

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