- From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
- Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2022 21:30:16 +0000
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
The transcript for the call is now available here:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-03-28-vc-education/
Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2022-03-28-vc-education/audio.ogg
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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2022-03-28
Agenda:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2022Mar/0008.html
Topics:
1. IP Note
2. Call Notes
3. Introductions & Reintroductions
4. Announcements & Reminders
5. MIT Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) Learner Wallet with
Brandon_Muramatsu
Organizer:
Kerri Lemoie
Scribe:
Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present:
Marty Reed, Stuart Freeman, Deepak, Kerri Lemoie, Andy Miller,
Phil L (P1), Kimberly Linson, Matt Lisle, David Ward, Nate Otto,
John Kuo, Brandon Muramatsu, MIT, James Chartrand, Tim Bouma,
Dmitri Zagidulin, Taylor, Sharon Leu, Simone Ravaoli, Phil
Barker, Kaliya, Geun-Hyung, Jim Goodell, Colin, LEF, Sandro
Cacciamani, PL, Frank C Cicio Jr, Luigi Susanna, Agnese Salutari,
Nikos Fotiou, Deb Everhart
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Hello everybody and welcome to the March 28th
edition of the BBC education task force.
Kerri Lemoie: You go through some some announcements boilerplate
first and then we'll get going on our main topic today which is a
presentation on the MIT digital credential Consortium sour
otherwise none of the DCCC learner wallet.
Topic: IP Note
Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kerri Lemoie: So I'm first IP don't know that anyone can
participate in these calls is an open Community however I'll
substitute contributors to any of the ccg work items must be
members of the ccg with full IP our agreement science this is for
for IP protection for the members you can read more about this
right here in the link that I'm putting in the Trap.
Topic: Call Notes
Kerri Lemoie: Secondly know that this call and most calls at the
ccg are recorded the audio recording and the minutes are
transcribed please note that we've been having some some issues
with the recording so it could be possible that we will lose the
recording during the presentation if that happens typically the
transcriber keeps going to then we will we will have a
transcription of the entire meeting.
Kerri Lemoie: You may see.
Kerri Lemoie: Transcriber you probably will notice that in the
transcriber in the chat and sometimes the transcriber gets a
little wonky and or you know presenters like me don't speak
exactly clearly and in misinterprets us and if you see this we
would appreciate it if you could do a substitution during the
meeting so that we can catch this before publishing the minutes
and to do that you would type you type in s forward slash the
phrase or word you want to.
Kerri Lemoie: A place and then the other other placement so it
would look.
Kerri Lemoie: Put it in the chat.
Kerri Lemoie: Seven here in the chat we have substitute wrong
word with the right word also we follow a queue system on these
calls so please type Q Plus to put yourself in the queue and then
if you decided you'd fill our want to be in the queue just put
q-.
Kerri Lemoie: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Kerri Lemoie: I'm in all of the meetings are archived and find
the link I will put the link here we go so all of the archive
notes later if you do make these calls you can find them.
Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so next introductions and reintroductions
there anybody here in the call today who's new to this call and
would like to introduce themselves so please go ahead and queue
yourself
Kerri Lemoie: Okay how about I reintroductions is there anyone
here would like to reduce reintroduce themselves or tell us what
they're working on right now.
Kerri Lemoie: I just noticed the transcriber says kill yourself
instead of Q yourself so I'm going to fix that right now.
<phil_l_(p1)> LOL
Kerri Lemoie: Kaliya, you're in the queue.
Kaliya: Hi I don't know if I've ever introduced myself on this
call and I have fun new things to share so my name is Kalia young
my handle online is identity Woman and.
Kaliya: I've been at this a very long time I just went to the
forest this weekend and I was like really I just want to
facilitate but we still have some more work to do here and to
join any I guess I started really with my first job in that field
in 2004 and I founded the internet identity Workshop in 2005 so
you're all invited it's coming up April 26th to 28th in Mountain
View California and I.
Kaliya: Just recently launched a consultancy.
Kerri Lemoie: IIW: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
Kaliya: Blue sea to support both startups in the space trying to
understand their strategy and go to market but also Enterprise is
considering adopting the technology and helping them understand
both the technology and what vendors might be a good fit for them
and what their use cases are so that's really exciting.
Kerri Lemoie: It is really exciting awesome.
Kaliya: So it's yeah so it's a URL and I'm on my phone so I can't
really type it is Consulting dot identity woman done it if people
are interested.
Kaliya: Sorry I'll say one more thing I also teach a community
college so I have kind of understand the education space a little
bit from that perspective.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey did you say it was
consulting.identitywoman.net
Kerri Lemoie: Anyone else in the queue to do reintroductions
today.
Topic: Announcements & Reminders
Kerri Lemoie: Okay don't have any announcements I would have I'm
announcing internet identity workshop with Kaliya just did that
did anyone else have any announcements they would like to make
today any events coming up or launches or projects you would like
to tell folks about.
Kaliya: So I'll say that on Friday I'm hosting a workshop that's
half a day called mitigating Harms in web 3.
Kaliya: Um and if you type mitigating harms into web 3 and
Eventbrite into your browser it'll come out.
Kaliya: Quick into a search engine.
Kerri Lemoie:
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/mitigating-harms-in-web3-tickets-260675526517
Kerri Lemoie: I just found it I will put the link in here.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay anybody else like to say anything.
Kerri Lemoie: Phil Long - you're in the queue
Phil_L_(P1): Yeah just just a note for people that the digital
promise project on lers for equity which is intended to develop
principles to guide people building lers for particularly
minority populations that report should be coming out in April
relatively early April mid-april something like that so keep an
eye out it's under the auspices of digital promise and we'll be
up on both.
Phil_L_(P1): their sight.
Kaliya: Sorry what's an L ER.
Phil_L_(P1): Learning and employment record that's the phrase
that's being used by some to represent a form of verifiable
credential for those communities.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks for telling us about that feel when it
comes out would you mind sending it out to the VC email list.
Phil_L_(P1): I'd be happy to do that.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you and for those who aren't familiar with
that and not sign up for that yet that is we have an email list
for specifically for this task group and addition to the ccg
group let me pull that up for you too so you have that you can
sign up if you haven't this is where we tend to have more.
Kerri Lemoie: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
Kerri Lemoie: And then they don't need to be technical
discussions we can just talk about theoretically a verifiable
credentials and identity and education on this list also on the
ccg list by the way but if you're looking for having an education
specific purpose discussion then you can post here.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey great I don't see anybody else in the queue
but if you decide to you know say something else later I'm feel
free to put yourself in the queue what I would like now is
introduce Brandon from MIT Brandon could you pronounce your last
name for us make sure I get it right.
Topic: MIT Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) Learner Wallet with Brandon_Muramatsu
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: In theory if you can hear me it's I
pronounce it muramatsu however if you're actually Japanese or
potentially Spanish speaker you probably pronounce it
differently.
Kerri Lemoie: How could you say so I'm curious.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Different use of the you thank you.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1rBTr1HtzOmQY9EMph3IIqRh2vCT_rpnxwhCdpOju3wQ/
Kerri Lemoie: Oh yes well thank you for being here that's what
makes sense but thanks for being here today you are welcome to
share your presentation and we'll keep an eye on the cue for you
and let you know if any questions come up otherwise we can have
more of a discussion when you're done.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sounds good let's see if.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: That's not quite what I want to do.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Is there a way of just sharing a window.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to pull this up.
Kerri Lemoie: I think so yeah when you click share on the top
there are tabs this is entire screen than window then Chrome tab.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Yeah not within Brave I it doesn't.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I could be a brave specific thing.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: So I guess we will do it this way so I
will not be able to follow along which app.
Kerri Lemoie: That's okay I'll keep an eye on the chat for you.
Kerri Lemoie: Slides:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1rBTr1HtzOmQY9EMph3IIqRh2vCT_rpnxwhCdpOju3wQ/
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Okay I dropped a link to the slides into
the chat before I switched over to sort of this full screen view
thank you Carrie and you to the task group for inviting me to
speak I'm going to share some of the work that many of you
already know some parts about and some of you who contributed to
the specification upon which the team here built the learner
credential wallet the team here is a team of a number.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: of individuals including.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: He was one of the co-chairs myself Philip
Schmidt Gillian Walsh and Krishna Raja gopal we also have Lee gal
door for who's visiting is visiting researcher from the Technical
University of Munich with us for a few more days and that I am
happy to present on all of their Collective work.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Thought I'd start off with a very brief
overview of the digital credentials Consortium and then talk
about the learner credential wallet in particular digital
credentials Consortium was formed in 2018 to with mission and
vision to create a landscape to improve and Chrysler agency
focusing on Equitable ER and career Pathways and then our mission
to build a digital academic credentials infrastructure.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: for the future here are the twelve
founding members.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: A if you are interested we do have a
white paper at bit.ly slash capital D CC Dash white paper
describes the the philosophy and some of the high-level technical
goals of the credentials Consortium the members are primarily
research universities across North America the US Canada and
Mexico and in Europe.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: with it.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Need to know.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: We're getting principles and values we
actually have a larger list of these in the white paper but we
sort of boiled it down to these three things with folks on
Learners issuers and trust and in particular equipment to learner
agency issuer control where the issuer's control the to whom they
issue credentials what and what the credential represents and the
commitment to open processes Open Standards open software and.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Verified without consulting the original
issuer all of the things that should sound familiar to everybody
here in the task group.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: How does the DCCC do its work working
through organizations like w3c sitting in on IMS CLR and badges
V3 efforts connection to the international efforts through our
European partners and then we host all of our software or open
source open source software at github.com digital credentials.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: This is the members individual
universities build and launch their own pilots and we do our
coordination through the technical working group.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And as we move forward this year we hope
to continue to strengthen relationships with vendors and add more
pilots to the mix.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I should mention it's fine with me carry
if folks have questions along the way especially as we get into
the demo so just go and interrupt me whenever.
Kerri Lemoie: Sure no questions yet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: What's been most of the time talking
about a project that's primarily funded by the US Department of
Education along with some additional funding from Walmart it's a
project to develop an open source wallet when the team was
discussing a potential project with the Department of Education
the.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: where everybody.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sort of the decision came down to is that
one of the key missing parts of the ecosystem was in fact an open
source wallet that individuals could use to hold their
credentials that was not necessarily tied to a particular issue
or whether that issue or be a university or a vendor so the team
set about to build an open source wallet to to support that
learner agency and prevent lock-in it also ends up establishing
a.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: since implementation of many of the.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Bulls of the Consortium as well as that
are contained within verifiable credentials we release the
specification last year in May of twenty Twenty-One and thank you
to everyone in this group that contributed to the drafts of the
specification we published the open source code for the mobile
apps in December 20 21 the apps themselves we.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: finally succeeded in getting.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: To the app stores in February of this
year we are running deployment Pilots with Georgia Tech College
in Downtown San Jose City College and two of our colleagues Matt
and Stewart from Georgia Tech are on the call today and as I
mentioned it was supported by Department US Department of
Education and Walmart.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey Batman interrupt you we have a somebody in the
queue so long so thank you.
PL: Hey Brandon can you just click quick question is there or was
there consideration and reference to the so-called Universal
while expect that Ori had contributed earlier to the ccg in the
design of the universal of the DCCC wallet and or was that used
in as a framework.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: In fact yes and I'll get that actual in a
couple slides.
PL: Sorry to jump the gun.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: There you go stealing the Thunder again
Phil I've known Phil for many many years now.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Um continuing typo on this slide that
I'll fix so the specification in implements the VC data model
uses that Universal wallet spec that Phil was just mentioning it
also is informed by the lar rapper at wallet specification and
what we did with the specification is used to define the minimum
viable product that we then implemented in IOS and Android.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I will not read out that URL if someone
could paste that into chat either Dimitri said she can find it or
carry.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Here's the home screen the website for
the wallet it's http://oc.lc/support.
Dmitri Zagidulin: App: https://lcw.app
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I was frankly surprised we could get a
three level done hostname during domain name so that's what we
ended up going with the app is available for from the Apple App
Store and on the Google Play Store so key features of the wallet
I'll go over real high level just sort of talking it through then
I'll do a demo of the wallet itself.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: the wall is entitled.
<kerri_lemoie> Spec link:
https://digitalcredentials.mit.edu/docs/Learner-Credential-Wallet-Specification-May-2021.pdf
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Mobile device there are no user accounts
so there is no web account that you create or user account the
the wall is secured with a local passphrase you can add dc-based
credentials from a deep link from registered issuer or via QR
code that either represents that deep link or that has a fully
contained VC in the qr-code the initial support was for diploma
like or program certificate.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: cat-like credentials sort of end stage
crew.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Trolls you can preview the credential
it's sort of a human-readable form within the app or you can read
the Json if that's your jam you can share the credentials using
the the operating system share sheets and to being a Json
verifiable presentation that can include multiple VCS you can
backup and restore the wallet you can delete the credential you
can also reset the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Today I'll do two demos one is from a
learning management system this is building on the work that Matt
and Stewart at Georgia Tech did using LTI issue or an accredited
been that can be found in our GitHub repo and what this does IT
issues a verifiable credential from a from canvas into the wallet
and then I'll walk you through a workflow for using a deep link
to add the credential to the wallet using the sign and verify.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I Docker image that we.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: This oughta be fun.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Mostly say you don't see my crazy screen
in theory deep does everyone see the learner credential wallet
the start setup on it screen.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Let's do that so I have downloaded
installed the wallet from the Apple App Store I can go ahead and
start the setup it asks me to enter a password.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And then it goes ahead and initialize the
wallet so I can go to the wallet from within the wallet basically
the next thing to do is add a credential inadequate uncial by
scanning a QR code or following a deep link I'm going to use the
scenario where I'm a student in a course at Georgia Tech my in
I've completed the course my instructor has issued me a.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Natural and so.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Go over to the Georgia Tech my log into
canvas go to my course within Georgia Tech I can go to in this
case a demo credential where developed through the apps developed
by the team at Georgia Tech and I can go ahead and claim the
credential I follow the link it opens with in the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: To make sure that the issuer knows who I
am or who they think I should be I'll use single sign-on through
Georgia Tech I had done this earlier today normally I would have
entered my username and password I click on allow and then the
issuer offers it up to offers the credential up to me I can
preview that credential seeing that.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: You the issuance date website description
and that the credential is verified these are the checks that are
run in the background to check for verification digital
signatures the issuer institution is registered credential is not
expired.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I can go ahead and accept the credential
it's been added to my wallet and then click done and there I've
got the credential in my wallet I preview it I can see the same
thing I saw previously I can also click this 3. Menu and I can
choose to share the credential I can get the details of the
credential which is the Json raw Json for the credential.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I can also.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Individual credential I'm going to hold
off the share example until I go through the second demo but I'll
go ahead and pause for a second to see if there any questions.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm the queue is empty so I'm going to excuse
myself up before you remember anything in mind could you walk us
through something some people may have questions about this walk
us through issue a registration and key choices things like this
sort of dig in a little bit into the technical aspects I know
Demetrius here but also if you wouldn't mind starting a little
bit there.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sure and I'm going to kick it over to
Dimitri pretty quick so the way things are currently implemented
Dimitri please chime in at any point in time we are running it a
registry of issuers so in order for the wallet to accept
credentials the organization's need to be in the issuer registry
with there.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And other metadata Dimitri can go into
the details of why we're doing it this way but it's sort of a
step along a path towards a more robust registry I'll tell you
right now that one of the current limitations of the wall it is
that every new issuer needs to be added to the wallet source code
and the compiled and new version issued its the balance of.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: quick to get done.
<pl> What key issuer are you using?
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Versus long-term maintenance and
sustainability and I think roof as I was chatting with Dimitri
last week we're finally at the point where it really would have
been nice for us to implement kind of a more robust issuer
registry and so Dimitri if you want to pick up there and or talk
about keys.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Of course thank you thanks Brandon yeah so
like been mentioned right now the issue registry is embedded into
the wallet our one of our very next roadmap items is to have it
communicated with an actual registry as opposed to having to
release a new app so just one thing I want to mention is that
those of you working on wallets right now you will definitely
need to.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Some sort of issue a registry right it's a big
problem in our space I know there's some standards work being
done by at the trust over IP community and I know coleus part of
that community so she can answer questions there but what it is
it's basically it's a list it's a mapping of bids to real world
entities since this is a b c's are all about what the trust
architecture and this specifically is educational use.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Is case we at least need to know.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Looking at a credential in the viewer is this
a credential from a legitimate educational.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Institution what it's name is and so on now
what makes for a legitimate educational Institution.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Cesar subject of a long conversation and will
depend on your particular project your particular trust
architecture and so on right that's so we're just going for a
very very basic not even trust over IP level but a very basic
flat list of these are the issuer's participating in the pilot.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Again with as far as the key choices out we
just started with Edwards curve ed2 5519 2023 we're open to
adding new key types as people use cases dictate but we just
started with most common one that we deserve.
<pl> thanks Dmitri
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you my dear in the cube.
Marty Reed: Yeah so I just wanted to ask from you know that that
discussion Dimitri on Registries what do you think about the work
in glyph' and then at least from CLR 2.0 potentially we're
looking at the idea of a proof registry and there's already been
some work done by.
Marty Reed: By the BC work group so just curious on your
thoughts on some of the existing registry strategies out there
Beyond trust over IP.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure good questions both so yeah we for the
pilot we basically picked the first one from the ccg proof
registry.
Simone Ravaoli:
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/wikis/display/EBSIDOC/Trusted+Issuers+Registry+API
Dmitri Zagidulin: Right so which went there okay what's the most
commonly used key in that registry that Edwards curve let's just
try that I'm less familiar with ag life work then I would like to
be off from what I understand is not quite compatible with the
current infrastructure here it's using slightly different Tech
stock we're certainly open to interoperating with it in the
future.
Kerri Lemoie: You have the floor.
<deb_everhart> sorry to join late, I had a conflict for the first
half
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you hey Brandon had Dmitry I'm question on
the Registries if you been looking at all at the trusted issuers
registry as specified in the European blockchain service
infrastructure particularly given that a few of the partners in
d.c. are in Europe.
Dmitri Zagidulin: No not yet mostly because when we were laying
down the foundation of this pilot it was I think at least a year
and a half ago I think slightly before the the document came out
at AB c-- so we're definitely aware of that work and we'd like
to.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Be compatible.
Dmitri Zagidulin: As I roadmap and budget permits it was just
we're a slightly earlier iteration before that.
Kaliya: Just to say that there are two levels of registry work
and my understanding is that the efforts of trust over IP are
focused on listing on focused on Registries like you could use
the standards that they're developing to have a registry listing
of higher educational institutions.
Kaliya: That you know for people to track 2 and that the train
work is Registries of registries.
<pl> train (?) work?
Kaliya: So that's what the global covid certificate Network that
came out of the good House pass work is using to build its its
registry Registries so there's two.
Kaliya: Levels of the problem that both have active work going on
in.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Thank Scalia quick clarification question I
what do you mean by train effort or train work.
Kaliya: That's the that's the stuff he was referencing in Europe
I believe.
<pl> Thanks
<kerri_lemoie> Phew - accidentally left the call - glad it is
still going!
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> LOL Kerri
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Meaning if you don't put Giant images or PDFs
into them you can fit the entire credit on a QR code that's a
Brandon's doing there to add a second image sorry second please.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Thank you Dimitri and so I'll go ahead
and accept it into the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And then back from the home screen I now
see that I have this to credentials the original one I added by
following the link through from canvas and then the link I just
added in through the qr-code.
<deb_everhart> the demo usefully shows how the basic VC fields
are not sufficient to provide rich and differentiating
information about the credential-- which is an opportunity for
referencing CTDL information about the credential
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I guess we should also mention if you're
following along the reason we did the QR code even though I
talked about following a deep Link in an email is because we
don't have all of the systems connected up on the back end for me
to fully live demo with San Jose City College right now but I can
choose to share these credentials I can if I had three four five
credentials in the wallet I could choose to share any number of
them I'm going to go ahead and share the to credentials I have.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Them or I can go to them in the
description of the wallet and so the easiest would do this is to
send it to notes and go ahead and save it and notes and then I
come out to notes I open it up and it's a final presentation with
both credentials cluded within it this is great if your system
can read Json.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: It's not particularly useful to
individuals at this point in time.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And that was the the remaining part of
the demo I guess you can also you can restore the wallet you can
backup the wallet you can reset it and you can sign out if you
wanted to put your password lock in.
Kerri Lemoie: They expanded into references back as easy to do
but before you do I just want to know something that Deb said
they've ever heard said in the chat which is I'm sobriety for
referencing see CDL information about the credential of folks
should also know they were working on open badges working with
this wallet to with any wallet really we're working on open
badges 3.0 and also hopefully here we can also talk about.
Kerri Lemoie: More about how CTL fits into that.
Kerri Lemoie: Dimitri and headed back to you either.
Deb Everhart: +1 CTDL+open badges
Kerri Lemoie: I think it's the week after next.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure and in fact just to add to what Kerry
just said we are going to be talking about CDL specifically in
one of the next calls upcoming I think it's next week or the week
after that alright excellent yeah so stay tuned about that so I
wanted to highlight a couple more things just to illuminate the
ccg open ID connect and wallets selection.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Email into.
Dmitri Zagidulin: And how connects to this so there's a couple
of things to notice about this wall of right now.
Dmitri Zagidulin: One is that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: VC API incubated at the credentials community
group and open 80 connect in this wallet so the the demo workflow
that Brandon just were walked through used open as you connect.
Dmitri Zagidulin: To bind to.
<pl> Dmitri - by that you mean using the social login services
that depend on OpenID Connect.
Dmitri Zagidulin: To interoperate with the University's existing
user Management Systems right so all the emergency is out there
somewhere on the server there exists a database that has the
students that are participating and the student instead of having
a decentralized identifier probably has some opaque user ID so
our challenge is unit as well as Builders is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: We're bringing all of this.
Dmitri Zagidulin: New tech we're bringing decentralised
identifiers but we still need to connect those identifiers which
the school is not aware of yet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: To that Row in the database that has a user ID
and one of the recommended ways of doing that is what we're doing
here in the wallet which is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Using openid connect for user Authentication.
Dmitri Zagidulin: And combining it with a verifiable
presentation based did off so that the issuer receives the full
package and knows that okay.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The user identified as Brandon here and the
user is requesting that the credential is issued to this
particular decentralised identifier which the wallet controls not
not the university controls so that's that's thing want to notice
think to is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Your notice we're skipping here just because
we're demoing this particular wallet but the moment there becomes
a second wallet that's compatible with this whole Tech stack.
Dmitri Zagidulin: We're going to run into the wallet selection
problem so in that student email that Brandon showed like
congratulations Dimitri you have a you have a course completion
credential go pick it up the moment the students the learner
clicks on that email they're going to be presented with a choice
of great how do I how do I specify which wallet to get that into
and that's what that long thread is arguing about and we have
some.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Solutions or it we have some thoughts on how
to make the.
Dmitri Zagidulin: That whole process smoother but I just want
you all to keep in mind that while it's elections super hard
we're making it look easy here because it is a very focused pilot
on this particular one wallet when we have more than one it's
going to get merged.
Kerri Lemoie: I think Amy kiss that's very helpful and actually
last week we have that great discussion about the NASCAR
situation open ID and that bread and ccg what we didn't get to
last week was talking about identifiers with PCS and education
and it's sort of like I'm sure we'll get to that at some point
but to tie this to it Dmitri was just saying is that an open
badges we have been issuing back.
Kerri Lemoie: Badges so email addresses primarily.
<pl> So for expediency at this point you're punting on the NASCAR
problem - makes sense.
Kerri Lemoie: For the last decade and and what open badges is
looking at is actually presenting email address and the did in
the credential at the same time so that they're visually mapped
and so that a verifier could choose to check the email address in
addition to the did if they wanted to say know what the email
address or originally that the badge was issued to at a platform
like badge or I work for instance we're actually in between the
wallet and.
Kerri Lemoie: The issuing.
Kerri Lemoie: To organization would give the platform a badger
an email address and but doesn't know anything about the did
exchange and so this is it a schedule we want to have with all of
you about identifiers because some of you will be also be hitting
this as well so it gets a little bit complex I'm at that stage.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't see anybody else in the queue does anybody
else have any other sort of questions or comments about the demo
and the wallet about this topic at all.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I should add that for the pilot we chose
a limited set of fields to display and to support in theory
anything that's can be expressed as a VC can be included a
template to display it visually just needs to be added to the
wallet so if additional Fields email address for example or if
you wanted to.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: The CDL Street entry one could it's a
matter of expressing it in a VC and making sure that the wallet
knows how to render that within the VC the render that as there
are multiple ways one could choose to express things in a VC.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah thanks Brendon and actually I'm on that point
could you tell us a little bit more about say what the Knicks the
road map looks like Shay the next six months or a year for DC in
the wall at work.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I am not exactly sure we are just coming
to the end of the project actually today so after I get off at
school to back and make sure that the final report is in shape to
submit today we do have an issue with in the GitHub repo that
starts to list some of the features that might be on the road map
I have an item's honestly the many of those features come from
the discussions that are underway.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Within the United States couple different
groups about wallet interoperability these do not touch on the
wallet selection problem Dmitri was just talking about but rather
if you want to assuming that the two wallets were mobile wallets
exist how do you move credentials between those Wallets on the
device and what other features might want a wallet to have we
took our.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: put a stake in the ground with.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Must have required features for a learner
credential wallet and specification there are a number of
additional nice to have features and then there are a number of
features when considering interoperability or moving credentials
between wallets.
<dmitri_z> the wallet interop effort that Brandon is mentioning
-- that relates to JFF, and our very own Sharon Leu, who is on
this call now!
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Brandon is it worth mentioning the web wallet
component that might be on the road map.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I'm not entirely certain where that's
going to end up I sent you an email over the weekend that I want
to talk to you about so we talked about doing a quote web version
of the wallet there are Demetria knows as much more intimately
than I do a challenges in doing so while maintaining the values
and privacy controls that DCC.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Somebody's a nice host the web wallet
somewhere and does it just does it look like the mobile wallet is
it what happens when you need me to or want to start adding
features that include much more granular details I will say one
of the things that concerns me is once we get to the point where
folks want to share what one might call transcript level details
individual courses lat.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: With individual learning outcomes and
wants to mix and match and share specific skills backed up by
those learning outcomes I my brain just sort of does not know how
to parse that on the screen the size of a mobile phone.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Got very good points on all counts we're
certainly going to have to get creative and careful with these
full transcript style credentials how we are going to display
them on a mobile phone and even on a big screen on a laptop or
whatever lots of good UI work is going to go into there.
<jim_goodell> Good topic for future group discussions?
Kerri Lemoie: +1 @Jim
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And possibly because I'm of a certain
generation that even I can see how it can be done on a laptop
screen or a large monitor I just don't grok how you can do that
easily make user approach approachable to the user on a mobile
phone.
<dmitri_z> +1, Jim!
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you we actually do have an issue also in
b.c. I do about displaying credentials so we could pick this up
and you try and help contribute to this work.
Kerri Lemoie: Sorry to speak over you, Dmitri
Dmitri Zagidulin: Absolutely no not at all not at all I just
wanted to add to a Brennan was saying that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: That while it's a tricky one of the absolutely
convenient things that we've enjoyed with this d.c. see what
pilot wallet is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The wall it is Sovereign it is self-contained
meaning it controls the did and the keys and all of the
credentials that the student receive live exclusively locally on
the phone so we could sidestep all of the thorny questions of
data privacy of you know what happens if the remote server goes
down and loses the credentials all that stuff because.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Up to the user and the user can back up their
their wallet and all the keys.
Dmitri Zagidulin: It's out of our hands but the moment we have a
custodial style web wallet now is the time for all sorts of
discussions about data privacy about governance about backup and
restore migration of the wall it's much harder I think as a
community we're going to have to address all those questions
anyways we know we all know that's coming on the horizon so yeah
it is something we're continuing conversation about.
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> agree, those discussions are coming
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that makes sense to meet you thank you.
<pl> Great work by the DCC team!
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<dmitri_z> thanks all!
<colin,_lef> Thanks all!
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> thanks all
Kerri Lemoie: Brandon and Dimitri thank you very much for the
presentation today leaving the discussions you know week by week
we keep having deeper and deeper discussions on these calls and I
think there's a lot of great work going on in this community I
appreciate everyone being here and putting in your questions and
input and then you next week we'll continue on so have a good
week everybody and thank you so much for all you do.
PL: Thank you Carrie and thanks TC.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you Brandon thank you Dimitri see you
everyone.
Received on Friday, 1 April 2022 21:30:16 UTC