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[MINUTES] W3C CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2022-03-28

From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2022 21:30:16 +0000
Message-ID: <E1naOqS-0008H4-T8@mimas.w3.org>
Thanks to Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!

The transcript for the call is now available here:


Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
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VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2022-03-28

  1. IP Note
  2. Call Notes
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements & Reminders
  5. MIT Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) Learner Wallet with 
  Kerri Lemoie
  Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
  Marty Reed, Stuart Freeman, Deepak, Kerri Lemoie, Andy Miller, 
  Phil L (P1), Kimberly Linson, Matt Lisle, David Ward, Nate Otto, 
  John Kuo, Brandon Muramatsu, MIT, James Chartrand, Tim Bouma, 
  Dmitri Zagidulin, Taylor, Sharon Leu, Simone Ravaoli, Phil 
  Barker, Kaliya, Geun-Hyung, Jim Goodell, Colin, LEF, Sandro 
  Cacciamani, PL, Frank C Cicio Jr, Luigi Susanna, Agnese Salutari, 
  Nikos Fotiou, Deb Everhart

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hello everybody and welcome to the March 28th 
  edition of the BBC education task force.
Kerri Lemoie:  You go through some some announcements boilerplate 
  first and then we'll get going on our main topic today which is a 
  presentation on the MIT digital credential Consortium sour 
  otherwise none of the DCCC learner wallet.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kerri Lemoie:  So I'm first IP don't know that anyone can 
  participate in these calls is an open Community however I'll 
  substitute contributors to any of the ccg work items must be 
  members of the ccg with full IP our agreement science this is for 
  for IP protection for the members you can read more about this 
  right here in the link that I'm putting in the Trap.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie:  Secondly know that this call and most calls at the 
  ccg are recorded the audio recording and the minutes are 
  transcribed please note that we've been having some some issues 
  with the recording so it could be possible that we will lose the 
  recording during the presentation if that happens typically the 
  transcriber keeps going to then we will we will have a 
  transcription of the entire meeting.
Kerri Lemoie:   You may see.
Kerri Lemoie:  Transcriber you probably will notice that in the 
  transcriber in the chat and sometimes the transcriber gets a 
  little wonky and or you know presenters like me don't speak 
  exactly clearly and in misinterprets us and if you see this we 
  would appreciate it if you could do a substitution during the 
  meeting so that we can catch this before publishing the minutes 
  and to do that you would type you type in s forward slash the 
  phrase or word you want to.
Kerri Lemoie:   A place and then the other other placement so it 
  would look.
Kerri Lemoie:  Put it in the chat.
Kerri Lemoie:  Seven here in the chat we have substitute wrong 
  word with the right word also we follow a queue system on these 
  calls so please type Q Plus to put yourself in the queue and then 
  if you decided you'd fill our want to be in the queue just put 
Kerri Lemoie: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm in all of the meetings are archived and find 
  the link I will put the link here we go so all of the archive 
  notes later if you do make these calls you can find them.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay so next introductions and reintroductions 
  there anybody here in the call today who's new to this call and 
  would like to introduce themselves so please go ahead and queue 
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay how about I reintroductions is there anyone 
  here would like to reduce reintroduce themselves or tell us what 
  they're working on right now.
Kerri Lemoie:  I just noticed the transcriber says kill yourself 
  instead of Q yourself so I'm going to fix that right now.
<phil_l_(p1)> LOL
Kerri Lemoie:  Kaliya, you're in the queue.
Kaliya: Hi I don't know if I've ever introduced myself on this 
  call and I have fun new things to share so my name is Kalia young 
  my handle online is identity Woman and.
Kaliya: I've been at this a very long time I just went to the 
  forest this weekend and I was like really I just want to 
  facilitate but we still have some more work to do here and to 
  join any I guess I started really with my first job in that field 
  in 2004 and I founded the internet identity Workshop in 2005 so 
  you're all invited it's coming up April 26th to 28th in Mountain 
  View California and I.
Kaliya: Just recently launched a consultancy.
Kerri Lemoie: IIW: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/
Kaliya: Blue sea to support both startups in the space trying to 
  understand their strategy and go to market but also Enterprise is 
  considering adopting the technology and helping them understand 
  both the technology and what vendors might be a good fit for them 
  and what their use cases are so that's really exciting.
Kerri Lemoie:  It is really exciting awesome.
Kaliya: So it's yeah so it's a URL and I'm on my phone so I can't 
  really type it is Consulting dot identity woman done it if people 
  are interested.
Kaliya: Sorry I'll say one more thing I also teach a community 
  college so I have kind of understand the education space a little 
  bit from that perspective.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey did you say it was 
Kerri Lemoie:  Anyone else in the queue to do reintroductions 

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie:  Okay don't have any announcements I would have I'm 
  announcing internet identity workshop with Kaliya just did that 
  did anyone else have any announcements they would like to make 
  today any events coming up or launches or projects you would like 
  to tell folks about.
Kaliya: So I'll say that on Friday I'm hosting a workshop that's 
  half a day called mitigating Harms in web 3.
Kaliya: Um and if you type mitigating harms into web 3 and 
  Eventbrite into your browser it'll come out.
Kaliya: Quick into a search engine.
Kerri Lemoie: 
Kerri Lemoie:  I just found it I will put the link in here.
Kerri Lemoie:  Okay anybody else like to say anything.
Kerri Lemoie:  Phil Long - you're in the queue
Phil_L_(P1): Yeah just just a note for people that the digital 
  promise project on lers for equity which is intended to develop 
  principles to guide people building lers for particularly 
  minority populations that report should be coming out in April 
  relatively early April mid-april something like that so keep an 
  eye out it's under the auspices of digital promise and we'll be 
  up on both.
Phil_L_(P1):  their sight.
Kaliya: Sorry what's an L ER.
Phil_L_(P1): Learning and employment record that's the phrase 
  that's being used by some to represent a form of verifiable 
  credential for those communities.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thanks for telling us about that feel when it 
  comes out would you mind sending it out to the VC email list.
Phil_L_(P1): I'd be happy to do that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you and for those who aren't familiar with 
  that and not sign up for that yet that is we have an email list 
  for specifically for this task group and addition to the ccg 
  group let me pull that up for you too so you have that you can 
  sign up if you haven't this is where we tend to have more.
Kerri Lemoie: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/
Kerri Lemoie:  And then they don't need to be technical 
  discussions we can just talk about theoretically a verifiable 
  credentials and identity and education on this list also on the 
  ccg list by the way but if you're looking for having an education 
  specific purpose discussion then you can post here.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey great I don't see anybody else in the queue 
  but if you decide to you know say something else later I'm feel 
  free to put yourself in the queue what I would like now is 
  introduce Brandon from MIT Brandon could you pronounce your last 
  name for us make sure I get it right.

Topic: MIT Digital Credentials Consortium (DCC) Learner Wallet with Brandon_Muramatsu

Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: In theory if you can hear me it's I 
  pronounce it muramatsu however if you're actually Japanese or 
  potentially Spanish speaker you probably pronounce it 
Kerri Lemoie:  How could you say so I'm curious.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Different use of the you thank you.
Kerri Lemoie:  Oh yes well thank you for being here that's what 
  makes sense but thanks for being here today you are welcome to 
  share your presentation and we'll keep an eye on the cue for you 
  and let you know if any questions come up otherwise we can have 
  more of a discussion when you're done.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sounds good let's see if.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: That's not quite what I want to do.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Is there a way of just sharing a window.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm going to pull this up.
Kerri Lemoie:  I think so yeah when you click share on the top 
  there are tabs this is entire screen than window then Chrome tab.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Yeah not within Brave I it doesn't.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  I could be a brave specific thing.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: So I guess we will do it this way so I 
  will not be able to follow along which app.
Kerri Lemoie:  That's okay I'll keep an eye on the chat for you.
Kerri Lemoie: Slides: 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Okay I dropped a link to the slides into 
  the chat before I switched over to sort of this full screen view 
  thank you Carrie and you to the task group for inviting me to 
  speak I'm going to share some of the work that many of you 
  already know some parts about and some of you who contributed to 
  the specification upon which the team here built the learner 
  credential wallet the team here is a team of a number.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  of individuals including.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: He was one of the co-chairs myself Philip 
  Schmidt Gillian Walsh and Krishna Raja gopal we also have Lee gal 
  door for who's visiting is visiting researcher from the Technical 
  University of Munich with us for a few more days and that I am 
  happy to present on all of their Collective work.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Thought I'd start off with a very brief 
  overview of the digital credentials Consortium and then talk 
  about the learner credential wallet in particular digital 
  credentials Consortium was formed in 2018 to with mission and 
  vision to create a landscape to improve and Chrysler agency 
  focusing on Equitable ER and career Pathways and then our mission 
  to build a digital academic credentials infrastructure.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  for the future here are the twelve 
  founding members.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: A if you are interested we do have a 
  white paper at bit.ly slash capital D CC Dash white paper 
  describes the the philosophy and some of the high-level technical 
  goals of the credentials Consortium the members are primarily 
  research universities across North America the US Canada and 
  Mexico and in Europe.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  with it.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Need to know.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: We're getting principles and values we 
  actually have a larger list of these in the white paper but we 
  sort of boiled it down to these three things with folks on 
  Learners issuers and trust and in particular equipment to learner 
  agency issuer control where the issuer's control the to whom they 
  issue credentials what and what the credential represents and the 
  commitment to open processes Open Standards open software and.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Verified without consulting the original 
  issuer all of the things that should sound familiar to everybody 
  here in the task group.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: How does the DCCC do its work working 
  through organizations like w3c sitting in on IMS CLR and badges 
  V3 efforts connection to the international efforts through our 
  European partners and then we host all of our software or open 
  source open source software at github.com digital credentials.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: This is the members individual 
  universities build and launch their own pilots and we do our 
  coordination through the technical working group.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And as we move forward this year we hope 
  to continue to strengthen relationships with vendors and add more 
  pilots to the mix.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I should mention it's fine with me carry 
  if folks have questions along the way especially as we get into 
  the demo so just go and interrupt me whenever.
Kerri Lemoie:  Sure no questions yet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: What's been most of the time talking 
  about a project that's primarily funded by the US Department of 
  Education along with some additional funding from Walmart it's a 
  project to develop an open source wallet when the team was 
  discussing a potential project with the Department of Education 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  where everybody.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sort of the decision came down to is that 
  one of the key missing parts of the ecosystem was in fact an open 
  source wallet that individuals could use to hold their 
  credentials that was not necessarily tied to a particular issue 
  or whether that issue or be a university or a vendor so the team 
  set about to build an open source wallet to to support that 
  learner agency and prevent lock-in it also ends up establishing 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  since implementation of many of the.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Bulls of the Consortium as well as that 
  are contained within verifiable credentials we release the 
  specification last year in May of twenty Twenty-One and thank you 
  to everyone in this group that contributed to the drafts of the 
  specification we published the open source code for the mobile 
  apps in December 20 21 the apps themselves we.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  finally succeeded in getting.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: To the app stores in February of this 
  year we are running deployment Pilots with Georgia Tech College 
  in Downtown San Jose City College and two of our colleagues Matt 
  and Stewart from Georgia Tech are on the call today and as I 
  mentioned it was supported by Department US Department of 
  Education and Walmart.
Kerri Lemoie:  Hey Batman interrupt you we have a somebody in the 
  queue so long so thank you.
PL: Hey Brandon can you just click quick question is there or was 
  there consideration and reference to the so-called Universal 
  while expect that Ori had contributed earlier to the ccg in the 
  design of the universal of the DCCC wallet and or was that used 
  in as a framework.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: In fact yes and I'll get that actual in a 
  couple slides.
PL: Sorry to jump the gun.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: There you go stealing the Thunder again 
  Phil I've known Phil for many many years now.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Um continuing typo on this slide that 
  I'll fix so the specification in implements the VC data model 
  uses that Universal wallet spec that Phil was just mentioning it 
  also is informed by the lar rapper at wallet specification and 
  what we did with the specification is used to define the minimum 
  viable product that we then implemented in IOS and Android.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I will not read out that URL if someone 
  could paste that into chat either Dimitri said she can find it or 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Here's the home screen the website for 
  the wallet it's http://oc.lc/support.
Dmitri Zagidulin: App: https://lcw.app
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I was frankly surprised we could get a 
  three level done hostname during domain name so that's what we 
  ended up going with the app is available for from the Apple App 
  Store and on the Google Play Store so key features of the wallet 
  I'll go over real high level just sort of talking it through then 
  I'll do a demo of the wallet itself.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  the wall is entitled.
<kerri_lemoie> Spec link: 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Mobile device there are no user accounts 
  so there is no web account that you create or user account the 
  the wall is secured with a local passphrase you can add dc-based 
  credentials from a deep link from registered issuer or via QR 
  code that either represents that deep link or that has a fully 
  contained VC in the qr-code the initial support was for diploma 
  like or program certificate.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  cat-like credentials sort of end stage 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Trolls you can preview the credential 
  it's sort of a human-readable form within the app or you can read 
  the Json if that's your jam you can share the credentials using 
  the the operating system share sheets and to being a Json 
  verifiable presentation that can include multiple VCS you can 
  backup and restore the wallet you can delete the credential you 
  can also reset the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Today I'll do two demos one is from a 
  learning management system this is building on the work that Matt 
  and Stewart at Georgia Tech did using LTI issue or an accredited 
  been that can be found in our GitHub repo and what this does IT 
  issues a verifiable credential from a from canvas into the wallet 
  and then I'll walk you through a workflow for using a deep link 
  to add the credential to the wallet using the sign and verify.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I Docker image that we.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: This oughta be fun.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Mostly say you don't see my crazy screen 
  in theory deep does everyone see the learner credential wallet 
  the start setup on it screen.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Let's do that so I have downloaded 
  installed the wallet from the Apple App Store I can go ahead and 
  start the setup it asks me to enter a password.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And then it goes ahead and initialize the 
  wallet so I can go to the wallet from within the wallet basically 
  the next thing to do is add a credential inadequate uncial by 
  scanning a QR code or following a deep link I'm going to use the 
  scenario where I'm a student in a course at Georgia Tech my in 
  I've completed the course my instructor has issued me a.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Natural and so.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Go over to the Georgia Tech my log into 
  canvas go to my course within Georgia Tech I can go to in this 
  case a demo credential where developed through the apps developed 
  by the team at Georgia Tech and I can go ahead and claim the 
  credential I follow the link it opens with in the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: To make sure that the issuer knows who I 
  am or who they think I should be I'll use single sign-on through 
  Georgia Tech I had done this earlier today normally I would have 
  entered my username and password I click on allow and then the 
  issuer offers it up to offers the credential up to me I can 
  preview that credential seeing that.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: You the issuance date website description 
  and that the credential is verified these are the checks that are 
  run in the background to check for verification digital 
  signatures the issuer institution is registered credential is not 
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I can go ahead and accept the credential 
  it's been added to my wallet and then click done and there I've 
  got the credential in my wallet I preview it I can see the same 
  thing I saw previously I can also click this 3. Menu and I can 
  choose to share the credential I can get the details of the 
  credential which is the Json raw Json for the credential.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  I can also.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Individual credential I'm going to hold 
  off the share example until I go through the second demo but I'll 
  go ahead and pause for a second to see if there any questions.
Kerri Lemoie:  I'm the queue is empty so I'm going to excuse 
  myself up before you remember anything in mind could you walk us 
  through something some people may have questions about this walk 
  us through issue a registration and key choices things like this 
  sort of dig in a little bit into the technical aspects I know 
  Demetrius here but also if you wouldn't mind starting a little 
  bit there.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Sure and I'm going to kick it over to 
  Dimitri pretty quick so the way things are currently implemented 
  Dimitri please chime in at any point in time we are running it a 
  registry of issuers so in order for the wallet to accept 
  credentials the organization's need to be in the issuer registry 
  with there.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And other metadata Dimitri can go into 
  the details of why we're doing it this way but it's sort of a 
  step along a path towards a more robust registry I'll tell you 
  right now that one of the current limitations of the wall it is 
  that every new issuer needs to be added to the wallet source code 
  and the compiled and new version issued its the balance of.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  quick to get done.
<pl> What key issuer are you using?
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Versus long-term maintenance and 
  sustainability and I think roof as I was chatting with Dimitri 
  last week we're finally at the point where it really would have 
  been nice for us to implement kind of a more robust issuer 
  registry and so Dimitri if you want to pick up there and or talk 
  about keys.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Of course thank you thanks Brandon yeah so 
  like been mentioned right now the issue registry is embedded into 
  the wallet our one of our very next roadmap items is to have it 
  communicated with an actual registry as opposed to having to 
  release a new app so just one thing I want to mention is that 
  those of you working on wallets right now you will definitely 
  need to.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Some sort of issue a registry right it's a big 
  problem in our space I know there's some standards work being 
  done by at the trust over IP community and I know coleus part of 
  that community so she can answer questions there but what it is 
  it's basically it's a list it's a mapping of bids to real world 
  entities since this is a b c's are all about what the trust 
  architecture and this specifically is educational use.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Is case we at least need to know.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Looking at a credential in the viewer is this 
  a credential from a legitimate educational.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Institution what it's name is and so on now 
  what makes for a legitimate educational Institution.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Cesar subject of a long conversation and will 
  depend on your particular project your particular trust 
  architecture and so on right that's so we're just going for a 
  very very basic not even trust over IP level but a very basic 
  flat list of these are the issuer's participating in the pilot.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Again with as far as the key choices out we 
  just started with Edwards curve ed2 5519 2023 we're open to 
  adding new key types as people use cases dictate but we just 
  started with most common one that we deserve.
<pl> thanks Dmitri
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you my dear in the cube.
Marty Reed:  Yeah so I just wanted to ask from you know that that 
  discussion Dimitri on Registries what do you think about the work 
  in glyph' and then at least from CLR 2.0 potentially we're 
  looking at the idea of a proof registry and there's already been 
  some work done by.
Marty Reed:  By the BC work group so just curious on your 
  thoughts on some of the existing registry strategies out there 
  Beyond trust over IP.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Sure good questions both so yeah we for the 
  pilot we basically picked the first one from the ccg proof 
Simone Ravaoli: 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Right so which went there okay what's the most 
  commonly used key in that registry that Edwards curve let's just 
  try that I'm less familiar with ag life work then I would like to 
  be off from what I understand is not quite compatible with the 
  current infrastructure here it's using slightly different Tech 
  stock we're certainly open to interoperating with it in the 
Kerri Lemoie:  You have the floor.
<deb_everhart> sorry to join late, I had a conflict for the first 
Simone Ravaoli:  Thank you hey Brandon had Dmitry I'm question on 
  the Registries if you been looking at all at the trusted issuers 
  registry as specified in the European blockchain service 
  infrastructure particularly given that a few of the partners in 
  d.c. are in Europe.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  No not yet mostly because when we were laying 
  down the foundation of this pilot it was I think at least a year 
  and a half ago I think slightly before the the document came out 
  at AB c-- so we're definitely aware of that work and we'd like 
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Be compatible.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  As I roadmap and budget permits it was just 
  we're a slightly earlier iteration before that.
Kaliya: Just to say that there are two levels of registry work 
  and my understanding is that the efforts of trust over IP are 
  focused on listing on focused on Registries like you could use 
  the standards that they're developing to have a registry listing 
  of higher educational institutions.
Kaliya: That you know for people to track 2 and that the train 
  work is Registries of registries.
<pl> train (?) work?
Kaliya: So that's what the global covid certificate Network that 
  came out of the good House pass work is using to build its its 
  registry Registries so there's two.
Kaliya: Levels of the problem that both have active work going on 
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Thank Scalia quick clarification question I 
  what do you mean by train effort or train work.
Kaliya: That's the that's the stuff he was referencing in Europe 
  I believe.
<pl> Thanks
<kerri_lemoie> Phew - accidentally left the call - glad it is 
  still going!
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> LOL Kerri
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Meaning if you don't put Giant images or PDFs 
  into them you can fit the entire credit on a QR code that's a 
  Brandon's doing there to add a second image sorry second please.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Thank you Dimitri and so I'll go ahead 
  and accept it into the wallet.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And then back from the home screen I now 
  see that I have this to credentials the original one I added by 
  following the link through from canvas and then the link I just 
  added in through the qr-code.
<deb_everhart> the demo usefully shows how the basic VC fields 
  are not sufficient to provide rich and differentiating 
  information about the credential-- which is an opportunity for 
  referencing CTDL information about the credential
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I guess we should also mention if you're 
  following along the reason we did the QR code even though I 
  talked about following a deep Link in an email is because we 
  don't have all of the systems connected up on the back end for me 
  to fully live demo with San Jose City College right now but I can 
  choose to share these credentials I can if I had three four five 
  credentials in the wallet I could choose to share any number of 
  them I'm going to go ahead and share the to credentials I have.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Them or I can go to them in the 
  description of the wallet and so the easiest would do this is to 
  send it to notes and go ahead and save it and notes and then I 
  come out to notes I open it up and it's a final presentation with 
  both credentials cluded within it this is great if your system 
  can read Json.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: It's not particularly useful to 
  individuals at this point in time.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And that was the the remaining part of 
  the demo I guess you can also you can restore the wallet you can 
  backup the wallet you can reset it and you can sign out if you 
  wanted to put your password lock in.
Kerri Lemoie:  They expanded into references back as easy to do 
  but before you do I just want to know something that Deb said 
  they've ever heard said in the chat which is I'm sobriety for 
  referencing see CDL information about the credential of folks 
  should also know they were working on open badges working with 
  this wallet to with any wallet really we're working on open 
  badges 3.0 and also hopefully here we can also talk about.
Kerri Lemoie:   More about how CTL fits into that.
Kerri Lemoie:  Dimitri and headed back to you either.
Deb Everhart: +1 CTDL+open badges
Kerri Lemoie:  I think it's the week after next.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Sure and in fact just to add to what Kerry 
  just said we are going to be talking about CDL specifically in 
  one of the next calls upcoming I think it's next week or the week 
  after that alright excellent yeah so stay tuned about that so I 
  wanted to highlight a couple more things just to illuminate the 
  ccg open ID connect and wallets selection.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Email into.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And how connects to this so there's a couple 
  of things to notice about this wall of right now.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  One is that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  VC API incubated at the credentials community 
  group and open 80 connect in this wallet so the the demo workflow 
  that Brandon just were walked through used open as you connect.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  To bind to.
<pl> Dmitri - by that you mean using the social login services 
  that depend on OpenID Connect.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  To interoperate with the University's existing 
  user Management Systems right so all the emergency is out there 
  somewhere on the server there exists a database that has the 
  students that are participating and the student instead of having 
  a decentralized identifier probably has some opaque user ID so 
  our challenge is unit as well as Builders is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:   We're bringing all of this.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  New tech we're bringing decentralised 
  identifiers but we still need to connect those identifiers which 
  the school is not aware of yet.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  To that Row in the database that has a user ID 
  and one of the recommended ways of doing that is what we're doing 
  here in the wallet which is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Using openid connect for user Authentication.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  And combining it with a verifiable 
  presentation based did off so that the issuer receives the full 
  package and knows that okay.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The user identified as Brandon here and the 
  user is requesting that the credential is issued to this 
  particular decentralised identifier which the wallet controls not 
  not the university controls so that's that's thing want to notice 
  think to is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Your notice we're skipping here just because 
  we're demoing this particular wallet but the moment there becomes 
  a second wallet that's compatible with this whole Tech stack.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  We're going to run into the wallet selection 
  problem so in that student email that Brandon showed like 
  congratulations Dimitri you have a you have a course completion 
  credential go pick it up the moment the students the learner 
  clicks on that email they're going to be presented with a choice 
  of great how do I how do I specify which wallet to get that into 
  and that's what that long thread is arguing about and we have 
Dmitri Zagidulin:   Solutions or it we have some thoughts on how 
  to make the.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  That whole process smoother but I just want 
  you all to keep in mind that while it's elections super hard 
  we're making it look easy here because it is a very focused pilot 
  on this particular one wallet when we have more than one it's 
  going to get merged.
Kerri Lemoie:  I think Amy kiss that's very helpful and actually 
  last week we have that great discussion about the NASCAR 
  situation open ID and that bread and ccg what we didn't get to 
  last week was talking about identifiers with PCS and education 
  and it's sort of like I'm sure we'll get to that at some point 
  but to tie this to it Dmitri was just saying is that an open 
  badges we have been issuing back.
Kerri Lemoie:   Badges so email addresses primarily.
<pl> So for expediency at this point you're punting on the NASCAR 
  problem - makes sense.
Kerri Lemoie:  For the last decade and and what open badges is 
  looking at is actually presenting email address and the did in 
  the credential at the same time so that they're visually mapped 
  and so that a verifier could choose to check the email address in 
  addition to the did if they wanted to say know what the email 
  address or originally that the badge was issued to at a platform 
  like badge or I work for instance we're actually in between the 
  wallet and.
Kerri Lemoie:   The issuing.
Kerri Lemoie:  To organization would give the platform a badger 
  an email address and but doesn't know anything about the did 
  exchange and so this is it a schedule we want to have with all of 
  you about identifiers because some of you will be also be hitting 
  this as well so it gets a little bit complex I'm at that stage.
Kerri Lemoie:  I don't see anybody else in the queue does anybody 
  else have any other sort of questions or comments about the demo 
  and the wallet about this topic at all.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I should add that for the pilot we chose 
  a limited set of fields to display and to support in theory 
  anything that's can be expressed as a VC can be included a 
  template to display it visually just needs to be added to the 
  wallet so if additional Fields email address for example or if 
  you wanted to.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: The CDL Street entry one could it's a 
  matter of expressing it in a VC and making sure that the wallet 
  knows how to render that within the VC the render that as there 
  are multiple ways one could choose to express things in a VC.
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah thanks Brendon and actually I'm on that point 
  could you tell us a little bit more about say what the Knicks the 
  road map looks like Shay the next six months or a year for DC in 
  the wall at work.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I am not exactly sure we are just coming 
  to the end of the project actually today so after I get off at 
  school to back and make sure that the final report is in shape to 
  submit today we do have an issue with in the GitHub repo that 
  starts to list some of the features that might be on the road map 
  I have an item's honestly the many of those features come from 
  the discussions that are underway.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Within the United States couple different 
  groups about wallet interoperability these do not touch on the 
  wallet selection problem Dmitri was just talking about but rather 
  if you want to assuming that the two wallets were mobile wallets 
  exist how do you move credentials between those Wallets on the 
  device and what other features might want a wallet to have we 
  took our.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT:  put a stake in the ground with.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Must have required features for a learner 
  credential wallet and specification there are a number of 
  additional nice to have features and then there are a number of 
  features when considering interoperability or moving credentials 
  between wallets.
<dmitri_z> the wallet interop effort that Brandon is mentioning 
  -- that relates to JFF, and our very own Sharon Leu, who is on 
  this call now!
Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Brandon is it worth mentioning the web wallet 
  component that might be on the road map.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: I'm not entirely certain where that's 
  going to end up I sent you an email over the weekend that I want 
  to talk to you about so we talked about doing a quote web version 
  of the wallet there are Demetria knows as much more intimately 
  than I do a challenges in doing so while maintaining the values 
  and privacy controls that DCC.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: Somebody's a nice host the web wallet 
  somewhere and does it just does it look like the mobile wallet is 
  it what happens when you need me to or want to start adding 
  features that include much more granular details I will say one 
  of the things that concerns me is once we get to the point where 
  folks want to share what one might call transcript level details 
  individual courses lat.
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: With individual learning outcomes and 
  wants to mix and match and share specific skills backed up by 
  those learning outcomes I my brain just sort of does not know how 
  to parse that on the screen the size of a mobile phone.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Got very good points on all counts we're 
  certainly going to have to get creative and careful with these 
  full transcript style credentials how we are going to display 
  them on a mobile phone and even on a big screen on a laptop or 
  whatever lots of good UI work is going to go into there.
<jim_goodell> Good topic for future group discussions?
Kerri Lemoie: +1 @Jim
Brandon_Muramatsu,_MIT: And possibly because I'm of a certain 
  generation that even I can see how it can be done on a laptop 
  screen or a large monitor I just don't grok how you can do that 
  easily make user approach approachable to the user on a mobile 
<dmitri_z> +1, Jim!
Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you we actually do have an issue also in 
  b.c. I do about displaying credentials so we could pick this up 
  and you try and help contribute to this work.
Kerri Lemoie:  Sorry to speak over you, Dmitri
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Absolutely no not at all not at all I just 
  wanted to add to a Brennan was saying that.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  That while it's a tricky one of the absolutely 
  convenient things that we've enjoyed with this d.c. see what 
  pilot wallet is.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  The wall it is Sovereign it is self-contained 
  meaning it controls the did and the keys and all of the 
  credentials that the student receive live exclusively locally on 
  the phone so we could sidestep all of the thorny questions of 
  data privacy of you know what happens if the remote server goes 
  down and loses the credentials all that stuff because.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  Up to the user and the user can back up their 
  their wallet and all the keys.
Dmitri Zagidulin:  It's out of our hands but the moment we have a 
  custodial style web wallet now is the time for all sorts of 
  discussions about data privacy about governance about backup and 
  restore migration of the wall it's much harder I think as a 
  community we're going to have to address all those questions 
  anyways we know we all know that's coming on the horizon so yeah 
  it is something we're continuing conversation about.
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> agree, those discussions are coming
Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah that makes sense to meet you thank you.
<pl> Great work by the DCC team!
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<dmitri_z> thanks all!
<colin,_lef> Thanks all!
<brandon_muramatsu,_mit> thanks all
Kerri Lemoie:  Brandon and Dimitri thank you very much for the 
  presentation today leaving the discussions you know week by week 
  we keep having deeper and deeper discussions on these calls and I 
  think there's a lot of great work going on in this community I 
  appreciate everyone being here and putting in your questions and 
  input and then you next week we'll continue on so have a good 
  week everybody and thank you so much for all you do.
PL: Thank you Carrie and thanks TC.
Simone Ravaoli:  Thank you Brandon thank you Dimitri see you 
Received on Friday, 1 April 2022 21:30:16 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 1 April 2022 21:30:17 UTC