RE: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

Thank you for connecting Snorre, here’s a rush of thoughts about the initiative…


  1.  While the initiative/panel/EU may abhor (or less energetically, disparage) #bigtech companies …guess what? …the EU (or at least selected member nation states) are on a path (or need to be on a path) to become governmental #bigtech companies themselves.  What’s missing? You don’t have a charismatic leader like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, or Mark Zuckerberg leading with both the vision as well as the ability to execute and deliver on the vision.

  2.  Related to the above, the initiative doesn’t appear to have an overarching, grand vision about what digital identity and verifiable documents (esp. verifiable business documents) can mean to the future of the EU in terms of global, frictionless, trustful commerce. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6n9TvxA93I&list=PLU-rWqHm5p45dzXF2LJZjuNVJrOUR6DaD&index=39&t=896s


  3.  Promotion of simple all encompassing use cases:

     *   How will a corner grocery store or convenience store or other small business be able to self-issue credentials?
     *   Does the scope of what can be stored in the wallet include verifiable business documents such as purchase orders, invoices, waybills, and delivery confirmations?
     *   If the attribute data being provided is part of my personal data (data I own and control), how do I as a person get paid?


  1.  Here’s where all of this started for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6n9TvxA93I&list=PLU-rWqHm5p45dzXF2LJZjuNVJrOUR6DaD&index=42&t=600s


The EU or selected nation states need to revision, reinvent, and repurpose themselves to become #bigtech organizations …bigger and better than the #bigtech companies they like to disparage.

Best regards …enjoy the rest of your week,
Michael Herman

[Sun’s up. I’m going combining 😊 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDsUbhLB5lI]

From: Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
Sent: September 8, 2021 12:46 AM
To: Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
Cc: Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr>; public-credentials <public-credentials@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

Thanks for sharing Michael, and thanks for attending the webcast.
I think we can call this a top down approach and I agree. Also why Im trying to get a research project started in Norway, together with some of these actors to showcase what can be different and proove otherwise.
I do feel that the Norwegian representatives want the ultimate solution, but the question is how do one alter the EU way, or give them some important thoughts. That is difficult.
That being said, it is very early for this EU approach and things can change as was said multiple times yesterday.
So it is still time to air opinions.

I do think you are touching upon a nerve that there are just too many people who dont understand how can be done differently. I dont know how.
And I believe there are some really solid proofs that have to come in place to showcase that the far left side is possible.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:01 AM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net<mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>> wrote:
RE: Just a friendly note: terms like “very far-right” are sensitive in Europe; accusing people/ideas/project of being far-right, or implying that EU is far-right can be offensive.

Nikos, thank you for highlighting this sensitivity.

That being said, this sensitivity is close to what I intended to highlight in my remarks.  The scope/context of my remarks was explicitly limited to this initiative (and not the EU as a whole). Yes, the “very” adjective could have been omitted.

As a proof point, as part of the initiative, there appears to be virtually no focus or engagement with respect to individual citizens nor the needs of small businesses (when asked).  The initiative is primarily (solely) focused on the needs of governments, (commercial) sectors, and (commercial) attribute providers.

If you watch the webcast and (re)read the reference associated with my remarks (i.e. https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/), you’ll see what I mean by “far right”.  I’ve reproduced the relevant part of the blog posting below…

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From: Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr<mailto:fotiou@aueb.gr>>
Sent: September 7, 2021 12:59 PM
To: Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net<mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>; 'public-credentials' <public-credentials@w3.org<mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

Hi,
Just a friendly note: terms like “very far-right” are sensitive in Europe; accusing people/ideas/project of being far-right, or implying that EU is far-right can be offensive.

Best,
Nikos

From: Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net<mailto:mwherman@parallelspace.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, September 7, 2021 6:35 PM
To: public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org<mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>) <public-credentials@w3.org<mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>
Subject: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

The webcast Norstella & DIN talks about the European digital identity wallet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis) just finished. Unfortunately, IMO, this initiative is a very good example of a very far-right centralizationist approach to digital identity and credentials (https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/) …and, as an EU initiative, IMO I believe it’s not likely to change.

That being said, I think it’s instructive and valuable to watch this 1-hour webcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis) and to form your own opinions. About 30 people attended the original broadcast.

Here is a list of some of the questions/comments I posed.  A highlight of the webcast is that most were presented and considered/answered by the panel.  Thank you.

My List of Questions/Comments

Michael Herman
​Are you actually authenticating the values of the attributes? ...or perhaps, more accurately, are you simply providing for the verifiability of the digital container/envelope for the attribute data?

Michael Herman
​How will a corner grocery store or convenience store or other small business be able to self-issue credentials?

Michael Herman
​Does the scope of what can be stored in the wallet include verifiable business documents such as purchase orders, invoices, waybills, and delivery confirmations?

Michael Herman
​If the attribute data being provided is part of my personal data (data I own and control), how do I as a person get paid?

Michael Herman
​Comment: Sounds very much like a centralizationist directed project. Very unfortunate.

Michael Herman
​Another good article: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/


Michael Herman
​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right centralizationists: https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/


Michael Herman
​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right centralizationists: https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/


Michael Herman
​How are you engaging with the needs of individual citizens and small business? ...vs. large commercial "sectors" and governments?

Michael Herman
​Please ask about people getting paid for their data

Michael Herman
​Background: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/


Michael Herman
​Read https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/


Michael Herman
​People are actors too

DIN
​https://meet.jit.si/DIN-TPS


DIN
​that link and heyja as password

Best regards,
Michael Herman
Far Left Self-Sovereignist
First Principles Thinker

Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
Trusted Digital Web
Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
Parallelspace Corporation

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Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611 94
www.diwala.io<http://www.diwala.io/>