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Re: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity wallet (just finished)

From: Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2021 08:45:52 +0200
Message-ID: <CAE8zwO19AVpG8spEJEzOH53vZ76GOw+ko2crDVX4S3H9uaM3Dw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web)" <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
Cc: Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr>, public-credentials <public-credentials@w3.org>
Thanks for sharing Michael, and thanks for attending the webcast.
I think we can call this a top down approach and I agree. Also why Im
trying to get a research project started in Norway, together with some of
these actors to showcase what can be different and proove otherwise.
I do feel that the Norwegian representatives want the ultimate solution,
but the question is how do one alter the EU way, or give them some
important thoughts. That is difficult.
That being said, it is very early for this EU approach and things can
change as was said multiple times yesterday.
So it is still time to air opinions.

I do think you are touching upon a nerve that there are just too many
people who dont understand how can be done differently. I dont know how.
And I believe there are some really solid proofs that have to come in place
to showcase that the far left side is possible.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 4:01 AM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <
mwherman@parallelspace.net> wrote:

> RE: Just a friendly note: terms like “very far-right” are sensitive in
> Europe; accusing people/ideas/project of being far-right, or implying that
> EU is far-right can be offensive.
>
>
>
> Nikos, thank you for highlighting this sensitivity.
>
>
>
> That being said, this sensitivity is close to what I intended to highlight
> in my remarks.  The scope/context of my remarks was explicitly limited to *this
> initiative* (and not the EU as a whole). Yes, the “very” adjective could
> have been omitted.
>
>
>
> As a proof point, as part of the initiative, there appears to be virtually
> no focus or engagement with respect to individual citizens nor the needs of
> small businesses (when asked).  The initiative is primarily (solely)
> focused on the needs of governments, (commercial) sectors, and (commercial)
> attribute providers.
>
>
>
> If you watch the webcast and (re)read the reference associated with my
> remarks (i.e.
> https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/),
> you’ll see what I mean by “far right”.  I’ve reproduced the relevant part
> of the blog posting below…
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Nikos Fotiou <fotiou@aueb.gr>
> *Sent:* September 7, 2021 12:59 PM
> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
> 'public-credentials' <public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* RE: Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital
> identity wallet (just finished)
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just a friendly note: terms like “very far-right” are sensitive in Europe;
> accusing people/ideas/project of being far-right, or implying that EU is
> far-right can be offensive.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Nikos
>
>
>
> *From:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 6:35 PM
> *To:* public-credentials (public-credentials@w3.org) <
> public-credentials@w3.org>
> *Subject:* Webcast: Norstella & DIN talks about European digital identity
> wallet (just finished)
>
>
>
> The webcast *Norstella & DIN talks about the European digital identity
> wallet* (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis) just finished.
> Unfortunately, IMO, this initiative is a very good example of a very *far-right
> centralizationist approach* to digital identity and credentials (
> https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/)
> …and, as an EU initiative, IMO I believe it’s not likely to change.
>
>
>
> That being said, I think it’s instructive and valuable to watch this
> 1-hour webcast (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87bwwKKSWis) and to form
> your own opinions. About 30 people attended the original broadcast.
>
>
>
> Here is a list of some of the questions/comments I posed.  A highlight of
> the webcast is that most were presented and considered/answered by the
> panel.  Thank you.
>
>
>
> *My List of Questions/Comments*
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Are you actually authenticating the values of the attributes? ...or
> perhaps, more accurately, are you simply providing for the verifiability of
> the digital container/envelope for the attribute data?
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​How will a corner grocery store or convenience store or other small
> business be able to self-issue credentials?
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Does the scope of what can be stored in the wallet include verifiable
> business documents such as purchase orders, invoices, waybills, and
> delivery confirmations?
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​If the attribute data being provided is part of my personal data (data I
> own and control), how do I as a person get paid?
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Comment: Sounds very much like a centralizationist directed project. Very
> unfortunate.
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Another good article:
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right
> centralizationists:
> https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Article characterizing far-left self-sovereigntists vs. far-right
> centralizationists:
> https://hyperonomy.com/2021/02/10/is-the-social-evolution-model-harmful/
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​How are you engaging with the needs of individual citizens and small
> business? ...vs. large commercial "sectors" and governments?
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Please ask about people getting paid for their data
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Background:
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​Read
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/canadian-banks-trafficking-digital-identities-canadians-herman/
>
>
>
> Michael Herman
>
> ​People are actors too
>
>
>
> DIN
>
> ​https://meet.jit.si/DIN-TPS
>
>
>
> DIN
>
> ​that link and heyja as password
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Herman
>
> Far Left Self-Sovereignist
>
> First Principles Thinker
>
>
>
> Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
>
> Trusted Digital Web
>
> Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
>
> Parallelspace Corporation
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

*Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611 94
www.diwala.io

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Received on Wednesday, 8 September 2021 06:46:19 UTC

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