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RE: [sds-wg] Reminder and Agenda for Confidential Storage Spec Call - Mar 11, 2021

From: Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2021 11:20:28 +0000
To: "sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation" <sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation>, Neil Thomson <neil.thomson@queryvision.com>, "Adrian Gropper (agropper@healthurl.com)" <agropper@healthurl.com>, Daniel Buchner <daniel.buchner@microsoft.com>
CC: Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>, "sds-wg@dif.groups.io" <sds-wg@dif.groups.io>
Message-ID: <MWHPR1301MB20942B1E86486A2E802C6982C3909@MWHPR1301MB2094.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
RE: It is the developer’s utopia where my app is both hosted for free and self-sovereign. … Hosted confidential storage, like an EDV, is just storage.

NOTE: The following discussion is tangential to the “what is an [Identity] Hub?” discussion but it is worth clarifying the following…

In what I’ve documented as a “fully decentralized Twitter” (Dewitter) app scenario (95% of the document), there is no hosted storage at all …everything runs on Alice’s Phone, Alice’s Laptop, Bob’s Phone, or Carol’s Tablet.

There is one page near the end of the whitepaper, an architecture variation, called the “distributed Twitter” (Distwitter) app scenario where centralized server (clusters) are added to the mix but then the app scenario is no longer fully decentralized.

If we’re truly talking about Decentralized Twitter per @DanielB’s shoutout, there are no centralized servers in the Dewitter primary app scenario.

Best wishes,
Michael

p.s. Still waiting for feedback from @jack on the whole Dewitter idea 😉:
https://twitter.com/mwherman2000/status/1369093507214798849 and https://twitter.com/mwherman2000/status/1369714992652505089


From: sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation <sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation> On Behalf Of Adrian Gropper
Sent: March 11, 2021 2:22 AM
To: Neil Thomson <neil.thomson@queryvision.com>
Cc: Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>; sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation; sds-wg@dif.groups.io
Subject: Re: [sds-wg] Reminder and Agenda for Confidential Storage Spec Call - Mar 11, 2021

Thanks, Neil.

I envision identity hubs as the digital equivalent of “The City of Atlantis”. It is the developer’s utopia where my app is both hosted for free and self-sovereign.

I am not being sarcastic. Hosted confidential storage, like an EDV, is just storage. Identity personas and apps are conceptually agents, meaning code execution as well as storage. A Solid pod, for example, has storage as well as app plugins. Depending on where and how the pod is hosted (in digital Atlantis) it might be self-sovereign or not.

My iPhone is also an identity hub. It is decidedly not self-sovereign. The app store hosts only censored code. The connectivity is anything but anonymous. My surveillance is both constant and opaque. Even so, I am “happy” to pay Apple and AT&T well over $1,000 / year for hosting my identity hub.

IMHO, taking up identity hubs in a storage workgroup may be allowed under our charter but it is overreach. Nonetheless, I am happy to engage with the working group and will approach it from the perspective of self-sovereign hosting of my persona.

Adrian

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 3:08 AM Neil Thomson <neil.thomson@queryvision.com<mailto:neil.thomson@queryvision.com>> wrote:
As input to the discussion of [data] hub vs. the EDV sub-system  [secure data} services:

I’d suggest that the expectations I’m hearing across working groups (DIF, ToIP,…) on “data hubs” is that it is a basket of distributed data services packaged as a single point of contact for an organization (about their data) that includes, but is not limited to the following:


  *   A collection of data exchange services which replaces customized point to point solutions for individual sources & targets
  *   A data exchange broker between data sources and targets that may have different schema, semantics + languages, etc.
  *   Provider of different data exchange types, including streaming, subscription, notifications and batch updates
  *   Providing industry standard interfaces to data organized for different purposes and delivered in different ways

     *   Raw – data lake
     *   (real time) raw transactions as a stream (the same feed as populates the data lake)
     *   Standardized transactions (common transaction schema)
     *   Data event notification services (e.g., value from IoT device type X over threshold Y for period Z)
     *   Operational data (transactions + transaction management logs) – which might use industry specific common schema
     *   Analytical structured data (relational. dimensional , OLAP and data mining processed)
     *   Standardized data exchange services, mapping/translating: data schemas, semantics, data types, formats, languages – based on the Human Colossus Foundation OCA – Overlay Capture Architecture model

Such a collection of data services is being promoted by several (not yet SSI/ZKP) offerings/solutions of “data hub” services and applications.

What differentiates that for SSI based Secured Data Services is: standards for  ZKP/encryptically secured data hubs.


  *   From an EDV perspective (from what I have heard to in a few SDS wg meetings is), it:

     *   It plugs into and is accessed - directly or indirectly (e.g., via co-located direct wallet access) via data hub services.
     *   it is one of (and perhaps the most important) of the data sources/targets provided (transparently) to the clients using the data hub services

Thank you,
Neil Thomson
QueryVision
www.QueryVision.Com<http://www.QueryVision.Com>
T-613.220.9929
Neil.Thomson@QueryVision.com<mailto:Neil.Thomson@QueryVision.com>

From: sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation<mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation> [mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation<mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation>] On Behalf Of Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web)
Sent: March-10-21 7:27 PM
To: sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation<mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation>; sds-wg@dif.groups.io<mailto:sds-wg@dif.groups.io>; Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org<mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>
Subject: Re: [sds-wg] Reminder and Agenda for Confidential Storage Spec Call - Mar 11, 2021

RE: 3. Review ‘Division of Responsibilities between Hubs and EDVs’ list, call for objections or additions. Proposed list so far: https://hackmd.io/qClYLUPkQ7uf0r3_4O7BUQ


Dimitri and WG colleagues,

I’d like to suggest either before tomorrow’s SDS WG call or, as an early part of the call, that we establish a few things we don’t have:

  1.  A working/workable definition of/simple litmus test for what a [Identity] Hub is?
  2.  A working/workable definition of/simple litmus test for what an Encrypted Data Vault (EDV) is?
  3.  That is, two definitions that clearly contrast these 2 terms.

Without the above, I believe it is difficult (impossible) to continue with agenda item #3 with any additional depth.  After completing a description of the lengthy Distributed Twitter (Dewitter) app scenario, I know what an EDV is but I didn’t need and don’t expect to need anything called a Hub. I have no idea what a Hub is or if the Hub concept is even needed.

To facilitate this discussion, can someone (e.g. @DanielB) take a stab at drawing a boundary what might be considered to be an [Identity] Hub?  I’ve attached the PPTX source slide as well as a rendered image (below).

[cid:image001.jpg@01D7162C.F74279E0]

Is this a reasonable request?  Can we agree to precede the agenda item #3 discussion with an initial determination of these 2 definitions: EDVs and [Identity] Hubs?

Best regards,
Michael

From: sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation<mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation> <sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation<mailto:sds-wg@lists.identity.foundation>> On Behalf Of Dmitri Zagidulin
Sent: March 8, 2021 7:59 PM
To: sds-wg@dif.groups.io<mailto:sds-wg@dif.groups.io>; Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org<mailto:public-credentials@w3.org>>
Subject: [sds-wg] Reminder and Agenda for Confidential Storage Spec Call - Mar 11, 2021

Dear all,

This is a reminder that the DIF / CCG Secure Data Storage Working group weekly call will be happening on Thursday at 4pm Eastern / 1pm Pacific / 22:00 CEST.

Meeting link: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/84828031746?pwd=V0xGTnJ2Zm15RHlSRFpNTlRPQzdLUT09


Specification: https://identity.foundation/confidential-storage/

Specification repository: https://github.com/decentralized-identity/confidential-storage


Audio recordings and transcripts of previous meetings: https://dif.groups.io/g/sds-wg/wiki/19633


As always, the IPR policy requires that you can only make substantive contributions if you sign the IPR Release Form. Please follow the instructions at https://dif.groups.io/g/sds-wg/wiki/Home


Confidential Storage Spec Call Agenda
1. IPR Reminder
2. Introductions and Re-Introductions
3. Review ‘Division of Responsibilities between Hubs and EDVs’ list, call for objections or additions.
Proposed list so far: https://hackmd.io/qClYLUPkQ7uf0r3_4O7BUQ

4. Issue review

Thank you,
The Chairs
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Received on Thursday, 11 March 2021 11:20:46 UTC

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