Re: [Agenda] W3C Credentials CG Call Tues, Aug 10, 9am PT, 12pm ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT

Please let me know if I can be of assistance. I value this group and hope I
can give something back.

On Saturday, August 7, 2021, Kim Hamilton <kimdhamilton@gmail.com> wrote:

> also, as a recent/former/recovering chair of the CCG:
> 1. I tried to get a calendar subscription thing going and ran into all of
> the issues above that Christopher and Drummond mention. Likely the current
> chairs realized it was more trouble than it's worth to keep that going
> 2. Given that chair-dom is very much a volunteer position, I always
> appreciated it when individuals who were passionate about seeing a change
> happen volunteered to figure it out and put in the time to see it through.
> I.e. despite the problems above, it would be a meaty and worthwhile venture
> for a community member to volunteer to make information more accessible and
> manageable.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 11:10 AM Drummond Reed <drummond.reed@evernym.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michael, ironically your #proofbycontradiction fails because the very
>> system you cite *failed*. The calendar invite you have to the bi-weekly
>> ToIP Concepts and Terminology WG meeting is a legacy of a system the ToIP
>> Foundation abandoned. In the early days ToIP *tried* to handle calendar
>> management using Groups.io mailing lists and Google Calendar invites. But
>> as ToIP grew it ran into the exact problems Andrew Hughes explained and so
>> it abandoned the calendar invite approach in favor of the exact solution
>> Andrew articulated: a public calendar than members can subscribe to or just
>> refer to for meeting info: https://wiki.trustoverip.org/display/HOME/
>> Calendar+of+ToIP+Meetings.
>>
>> #proofbyexperience
>>
>> =D
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:30 PM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <
>> mwherman@parallelspace.net> wrote:
>>
>>> RE: Having administered dozens of working groups in several membership
>>> and volunteer organizations, I have not found a universal solution to the
>>> problem of using simple calendar clients where the meeting attendees are a
>>> group list
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> #proofbycontradiction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Drummond, are you a chair of the following ToIP concepts and terminology
>>> working group?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This WG has a calendaring solution that supports textual meeting
>>> requests with .ICS attachments. See below.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So does DIF  …I don’t know if they are the same platform or not.
>>> Clearly there are inclusive solutions CCG could be using for meeting
>>> management.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Michael Herman
>>>
>>> First Principles Thinker (https://hyperonomy.com/2021/
>>> 03/10/first-principles-thinking/)
>>>
>>> Far Left Self-Sovereignist
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Self-Sovereign Blockchain Architect
>>>
>>> Trusted Digital Web
>>>
>>> Hyperonomy Digital Identity Lab
>>>
>>> Parallelspace Corporation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Drummond Reed <drummond.reed@evernym.com>
>>> *Sent:* August 6, 2021 10:30 AM
>>> *To:* Andrew Hughes <andrewhughes3000@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>;
>>> Brent Zundel <brent.zundel@evernym.com>; Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>;
>>> W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Agenda] W3C Credentials CG Call Tues, Aug 10, 9am PT,
>>> 12pm ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +100, Andrew. You've administered enough community calendars to know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:08 AM Andrew Hughes <andrewhughes3000@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> (avoiding flame wars, cliques, as hominem, etc)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Having administered dozens of working groups in several membership and
>>> volunteer organizations, I have not found a universal solution to the
>>> problem of using simple calendar clients where the meeting attendees are a
>>> group list. The issues Brent listed are real. The disconnection of people
>>> who have a preference of email/calendar clients is real as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The best I've encountered so far is to have a centrally managed calendar
>>> that allows subscription, with links to a single page containing all
>>> agendas appended each time, and many many repeated instructions (links in
>>> every email and standing document) for each individual to subscribe to the
>>> calendar. That way the burden of managing local collisions is on the
>>> subscriber to manage however they choose, and not solely on the
>>> administrator who is unable to know or predict how each individual's
>>> software choice will interact with the system.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 8:31 AM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <
>>> mwherman@parallelspace.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Brent,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Many of us use standard email clients like Microsoft Outlook and use
>>> them to literally run our personal as well as corporate lives.  They all
>>> understand one flavor or another of .ICS calendar files.  These
>>> appointments and meeting requests automatically cancel, can be
>>> automatically updated, etc. etc.  Most groupware (except for maybe the
>>> Google services) support them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There’s millions of us …maybe a billion. By not supporting this
>>> every-day form for meeting management, we’re effectively being excluded.
>>> Hence, the reference to #cliquism.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Brent Zundel <brent.zundel@evernym.com>
>>> *Sent:* August 6, 2021 8:21 AM
>>> *To:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net>
>>> *Cc:* W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>; Mike Prorock <
>>> mprorock@mesur.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Agenda] W3C Credentials CG Call Tues, Aug 10, 9am PT,
>>> 12pm ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You ask a good question, though it is poorly framed. Providing an
>>> "(industry standard) meeting request" to a mailing list that somehow also
>>> invites each individual on the mailing list, that works easily with
>>> everyone's preferred calendar system, that is simple to update as
>>> participants change, and that automatically updates each participant's
>>> calendar as the original event changes, is not a simple problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You not being helped when folks are trying to be helpful, is not their
>>> problem. You being rude and accusatory to them in response is a problem.
>>>
>>> Assuming there is something you haven't been given because you "aren't
>>> in the club" is silly. The meeting organizers are doing their best to get
>>> everyone the information they need. If you feel that a specific mechanism
>>> for providing that information might work better for you and others in the
>>> group, you are welcome to propose your specific solution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 10:38 PM Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <
>>> mwherman@parallelspace.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> CORRECTION: Why are these meeting notices *not* being sent out as proper
>>> (industry standard) meeting requests? More clichism?
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Michael Herman (Trusted Digital Web) <mwherman@parallelspace.net
>>> >
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 5, 2021 10:35:27 PM
>>> *To:* W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>; Mike Prorock <
>>> mprorock@mesur.io>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Agenda] W3C Credentials CG Call Tues, Aug 10, 9am PT,
>>> 12pm ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why are these meeting notices being sent out as proper (industry
>>> standard) meeting requests?  More clichism?
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 5, 2021 6:02:49 AM
>>> *To:* W3C Credentials CG <public-credentials@w3.org>
>>> *Subject:* [Agenda] W3C Credentials CG Call Tues, Aug 10, 9am PT, 12pm
>>> ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TL;DR: WACI-PEx (from DIF), CCG Process
>>>
>>> NEXT MEETING:
>>> 1. What is WACI-PEx, project status, alignment with CCG projects - Brent
>>> Zundel, Orie Steele, Juan Caballero
>>> 2. Discussion on CCG Process, consensus, and next steps to avoid issues
>>> in the future - Mike Prorock
>>>
>>> Tuesday, Aug 10rd 2021
>>> Time: Tuesdays, at 9am PT, Noon ET, 5pm GMT, 6pm CET / 6AM+1 NZDT
>>> (see: https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html?iso=
>>> 20210810T160000&p1=tz_pt&p2=tz_et&p3=tz_cest&p4=tz_bst)
>>>
>>> Text Chat:
>>>       http://irc.w3.org/?channels=ccg
>>>       irc://irc.w3.org:6665/#ccg
>>>
>>> Jitsi Teleconf:
>>>       https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/weekly
>>>
>>> Voice:
>>>      US phone: tel:+1.602.932.2243;1 <+1.602.932.2243;1>
>>>
>>> We are working on SIP dial-in and international phone numbers.
>>>
>>> Duration: 60 minutes
>>>
>>> MINUTES FROM LAST MEETING:
>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
>>>
>>> MEETING MODERATOR: Michael Prorock <mprorock@mesur.io>
>>> PROPOSED AGENDA:
>>> 1. Agenda Review (2 minutes)
>>> 2. IP Note: (1 minute)
>>> Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive
>>> contributors to any CCG Work Items must be members of the CCG with full IPR
>>> agreements signed. https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
>>>     a. Ensure you have a W3 account: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
>>>     b. W3C COMMUNITY CONTRIBUTOR LICENSE AGREEMENT (CLA):
>>> https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
>>> 3. Call Notes (1 minute)
>>>     a. These minutes and an audio recording of everything said on this
>>> call are archived at https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
>>>     b. We use IRC to queue speakers during the call as well as to take
>>> minutes. http://irc.w3.org/?channels=ccg or http://irc.w3.org:6665/#ccg or
>>> the Jitsi text chat.
>>>     c. All attendees should type “present+” to get your name on the
>>> attendee list in the transcript.
>>>     d. In IRC type “q+” to add yourself to the queue, with an optional
>>> reminder, e.g., “q+ to mention something”. The “to” is required.
>>>     e. If you’re not on IRC, simply ask to be put on the queue.
>>>     f. Please be brief so the rest of the queue get a chance to chime
>>> in. You can always q+ again.
>>>     g. NOTE: This meeting is held by voice, not by IRC. Off-topic IRC
>>> comments are subject to deletion from the record. We work hard to manage a
>>> single thread of conversation so everyone can participate and be heard.
>>> Please respect the group process by joining the queue when you have
>>> something to contribute.
>>> 4. Scribe Selection (2 minutes)
>>> We need a volunteer to scribe. Scribe List: https://docs.google.com/
>>> document/d/1LkqZ10z7FeV3EgMIQEJ9achEYMzy1d_2S90Q_lQ0y8M/edit?usp=sharing
>>> 5. Introductions & Reintroductions (5 minutes --> :11) (see scribe doc
>>> for reintroduce column)
>>> 6. Announcements & Reminders (2 minutes)
>>> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
>>> 7. What is WACI-PEx, project status, alignment with CCG projects - Brent
>>> Zundel, Orie Steele, Juan Caballero (35min+)
>>> 8. Continuing last week's discussions regarding CCG (meta) and
>>> discussion of issues arising in some work groups, and how we avoid
>>> them (10min)
>>>
>>> 9. General Q&A and Discussion (any remaining time)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Prorock
>>>
>>> CTO, Founder
>>>
>>> https://mesur.io/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Brent Zundel, Evernym
>>>
>>> Principle Cryptography Engineer
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Andrew Hughes CISM CISSP
>>> In Turn Information Management Consulting
>>> o  +1 650.209.7542 m +1 250.888.9474
>>> 5043 Del Monte Ave,, Victoria, BC V8Y 1W9
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/5043+Del+Monte+Ave,,%C2%A0Victoria,+BC+V8Y+1W9?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> AndrewHughes3000@gmail.com
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-hughes-682058a
>>> Digital Identity | International Standards | Information Security
>>>
>>>

-- 
-Brent Shambaugh

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