Self-sovereign == incompatible? (was Re: Feedback on Zoom & Jitsi for CCG Meetings)

>To be self-sovereign means that you don't need to license software or standards as part of your community activities.
>
I guess this is the “super strict” definition of self-sovereign – because it also implies that you are OK being incompatible with the rest of the world and just want to do your own thing.


>For this reason, I try to avoid referencing pay-to-see standards from ISO, IEEE, the American Medical Association, etc...
>These put up access barriers that lock out the Free and open source software communities that are essential to self-sovereign technology
>
You do know that if you were willing to “pay” with your time and participate in the development of those standards – then they are free, right?    Either you pay with $$ or you pay with time – that seems quite fair to me.   And that is true with ALL standards bodies – including the W3C – where you need to pay ($$) to be a voting member of a working group that develops standards.

Leonard

From: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
Date: Friday, November 13, 2020 at 7:02 PM
To: Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com>
Cc: Heather Vescent <heathervescent@gmail.com>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, "W3C Credentials CG (Public List)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Feedback on Zoom & Jitsi for CCG Meetings
Resent-From: <public-credentials@w3.org>
Resent-Date: Friday, November 13, 2020 at 6:59 PM

We are not just another standards group. I think there's a larger issue here because we are working on self-sovereign standards. To be self-sovereign means that you don't need to license software or standards as part of your community activities. For this reason, I try to avoid referencing pay-to-see standards from ISO, IEEE, the American Medical Association, etc... These put up access barriers that lock out the Free and open source software communities that are essential to self-sovereign technology. I have participated in more than one group where we had to seek special favor from IEEE or ISO in order to share access to a standard that the group wanted to reference and potentially design in or out.

Whatever we do with Zoom vs. Jitsi, I hope we keep in mind other self-sovereign communities and groups that will want to build on what we have started.

Adrian

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 5:15 PM Steve Capell <steve.capell@gmail.com<mailto:steve.capell@gmail.com>> wrote:
Heather & Manu

Whilst it is certainly true (to heathers point) that the primary purpose is developing open DID and VC standards, it is also important to engage all contributors. And since there is often some correlation between enthusiasm for open standards and enthusiasm for open source, i think it sends the right message to prefer open source where practical.

Personally I’m not fanatical about it and would use either.  But I’m certainly happy to use jitsi etc if it means the work effort can retain valuable contributions from those that do have stringer feelings.

To Manus questionnaire I’d say I don’t have capacity to contribute maintenance effort but am certainly willing to substitute some small financial support of say $1000/ year

Kind regards
Steven Capell
Mob: 0410 437854


On 14 Nov 2020, at 9:29 am, Heather Vescent <heathervescent@gmail.com<mailto:heathervescent@gmail.com>> wrote:
Manu,

I sincerely appreciate the work you have done to make Jitsi feasible, but I have to think you may have lost sight of the purpose of the community, which is to focus on VCs and DIDs and credentialing technology, not re-build infrastructure. I will simply copy a comment someone shared with the chairs:

"I don't think it's important to use an open tool like Jitsi. Zoom is fine. We're not the group that's building an open teleconference platform; we're the group that's building DIDs and VCs. We don't have a problem using PDFs (a proprietary format); why should we have a problem using a proprietary teleconference tool?"

I am committed to making this group and our work items accessible to the broadest community. I refuse to allow us to get distracted re-inventing the wheel.

We have bigger fish to fry, especially if we are going to be serious about increasing global participation.

-Heather

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 1:21 PM Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com<mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>> wrote:
On 11/12/20 6:32 PM, Heather Vescent wrote:
> The chairs are gathering feedback about using Zoom and Jitsi for our
> regular Tuesday CCG call.

The poll does ask the community what their preference between the two
conferencing systems is... and the "volunteer to maintain Jitsi" is
misleading -- it's really "volunteer to maintain the CCG
infrastructure", which includes a variety of things other than Jitsi
(which shouldn't take a lot of effort once things are stable). I don't
know why Jitsi maintenance will take 2-12 hours a month if the system works?

I expect the outcome is that most of us will show up no matter what
system is used because we value the discussion over the infrastructure.
I also expect that it will be difficult for people to volunteer to
"maintain Jitsi" just as it will be difficult for people to volunteer to
"maintain the CCG infrastructure" -- it's a vague ask.

Can we please reword the survey so we can capture people's preferences
on our infrastructure?

Some suggestions:

1. How often do you attend the Tuesday CCG meeting?

2. Given equivalent functionality, do you prefer to use an open
   source or closed source for our video conferencing system?

3. Given equivalent functionality, do you prefer to use an open
   standards or proprietary solution for our video conferencing
   system?

4. What features are important to you in a video
   conferencing solution?
   * Works in my Web browser
   * Native client
   * Stability
   * Phone-based dial-in
   * SIP and VoIP connection options
   * Accessibility
   * Other: ____________

5. Are you willing to volunteer to maintain the tooling
   that the CG uses to hold meetings and generate
   meeting minutes (jitsi, scribe tool, system administration,
   documentation)?

6. Are you willing to financially support the CG tooling?
   * No
   * Yes, $25/year
   * Yes, $50/year
   * Yes, $100/year
   * Yes, $___/year

7. If you plan to volunteer, please list the things
   you feel comfortable helping with:
   * Server Maintenance
   * Software Maintenance / Coding
   * Minute Cleanup/Publishing
   * Updating Documentation
   * Other: ____________

The above would give us a better idea of preferences in the community.

-- manu

--
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