- From: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
- Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2020 15:52:34 -0400
- To: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>
- Cc: W3C Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CANYRo8gNGR4KeOY0+t8-WWVd2zTdH0-12odR=pZXQZMOfnCaUA@mail.gmail.com>
Contact tracing does not stand alone and the associated privacy issues are many. People need so self-report symptoms as well as their current health and personal life situation issues, including employment. As widespread testing, including serology, becomes available, we will need to track samples, home testing, and possibly even confidential testing. All of these things will need to be tuned to the local community or city while also maintaining trusted links to aggregated data at the national and global levels. https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/25/coronavirus-experts-craft-strategies-to-relax-lockdowns/ offers some perspective. I tried to raise these issues three weeks ago in a RWoT discourse thread and our Tuesday calls. I participate in many groups organized to crowdsource COVID-19 innovation. As far as I can tell, none of the participants are actually working together or on interoperable things. It seems unreasonable to expect CDC or WHO to organize this. Our W3C and DIF groups are a model for how to collaborate by consensus. What can we do beyond our business-as-usual and help our businesses as well by accelerating standards at a speed DIF could only dream of? - Adrian On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 8:30 AM David Booth <david@dbooth.org> wrote: > On 3/28/20 12:55 AM, Ehud Shapiro אהוד שפירא wrote: > > I mentioned the fact that it is open source not as a testimony for its > > being good, but as a practical advice for people in countries that do > > not have it, so that they can easily adopt it and adapt it to their own > > country's needs. > > While I agree with Paolo's point that being open source is not > SUFFICIENT to ensure goodness, I think it is a NECESSARY condition for > such an app, so that it can be scrutinized by all and gain the trust of > the community. > > David Booth > > > Separately, I have sent an opinion by Adi Shamir (the S in RSA, a > > Turing-award winner and a leading authority on security and privacy). > > Be safe, > > Udi > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:33 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com > > <mailto:paoladimaio10@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Well, thanks- > > however > > based on experience, let me also add > > > > that it does not matter how good honest open source the design is, > > everything can be twisted and deployed in such a way contrary to > > what the label says > > an app can be designed to > > a) give everyone the impression is ethical and respects privacy > > and is really nice and friendly > > b) does exactly the opposite - in ways that nobody can cognitively > > discern due to secret state abuse > > > > for now I am leaving the phone at home when I go out > > (I am very responsible and not infected and dont go out much at all > > in fact) > > > > I have become rather suspicious of everything that rings > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 12:11 PM Ehud Shapiro אהוד שפירא > > <ehud.shapiro@weizmann.ac.il <mailto:ehud.shapiro@weizmann.ac.il>> > > wrote: > > > > Israel has a pretty good one. > > It's open source > > https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/22032020_04 > > > > > > בתאריך שבת, 28 במרץ 2020 ב-6:56 מאת Paola Di Maio > > <paola.dimaio@gmail.com <mailto:paola.dimaio@gmail.com>>: > > > > Hi David > > this is important, thanks- > > > > I am in a location in Asia - better not specify since very > > aggressive folks > > have been tackling me at close range despite me taking all > > the necessary precautions to prevent it > > > > I know that new visitors in quarantine are being phone > tracked- > > they are being informed as much, and agree to both the > > quarantine and the tracking > > > > However the other day as I was sitting next to a local > > friend, she received an alert on her phone, followed by a > > phone call, all a local language which I do not understand > > > > After that, she started becoming very inquisitive about my > > arrival date whereabouts and contacts to other foreigners > > etc. I reassured her that I arrived long before the epidemic > > started and have sparse contacts with other foreigners after > > which she seemed reassured > > > > So, not only newcominers are being finromed of surveillance > > and agree to it. but > > there are mechanisms to alert citizens when their cell comes > > into range of a cell which is registered to a foreign > > passport, this is all under the radar afaik > > > > So your inquiry touches me personally > > > > How to design a good useful app that respects privacy.... > > tough one. > > I think you need to design an expert system/decision support > > tree > > that the app must follow in the alert workflow > > > > I d design a decision tree first > > Ping me offlist pls if you need my input > > > > PDM > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 11:38 AM David Booth > > <david@dbooth.org <mailto:david@dbooth.org>> wrote: > > > > On 3/27/20 11:18 PM, Moses Ma wrote: > > > How do y’all feel about Singapore’s TraceTogether? > > > See: > > > > > > https://www.businessinsider.com/singapore-coronavirus-app-tracking-testing-no-shutdown-how-it-works-2020-3 > > > Also: > > > > > > https://www.tech.gov.sg/media/technews/tracetogether-behind-the-scenes-look-at-its-development-process > > > > > > How would you design a fully decentralized contact > > tracer? > > > > Or, more broadly: how would you design a > > privacy-protecting contact > > tracer? This is urgently needed. > > > > Potential variations: 1. The app notifies you if it > > determines that you > > may have been exposed to COVID-19, without saying how it > > made that > > determination. 2. The app notifies healthcare officials > > that you may > > have been exposed, without telling them how it made that > > determination. > > > > Ideas? > > > > David Booth > > > > > > > > Moses > > > > > > > > > - > > > *Moses Ma | FutureLab Consulting Inc* > > > moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com > > <mailto:moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com> | > > moses@ngenven.com <mailto:moses@ngenven.com> > > > v +1.415.952.7888 <tel:+1.415.952.7888> | m > > +1.415.568.1068 > > > <tel:+1.415.568.1068> | skype mosesma > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Mar 27, 2020 at 9:44 AM, <Ian Smith > > <mailto:ian@vidicode.pro <mailto:ian@vidicode.pro>>> > wrote: > > >> > > >> proposing anti covid-19 protests to avoid saving > > lives is part of the > > >> ethos here? I wasn't aware that preventing the > > countermeasure to > > >> pandemic response was what this group was about > > >> > > >> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 6:10 AM Manu Sporny > > <msporny@digitalbazaar.com > > <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com> > > >> <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com > > <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>>> wrote: > > >> > > >> On 3/27/20 8:41 AM, Daniel Hardman wrote: > > >> > I will try to join you. Thank you for > > suggesting it. > > >> > > >> I can't join, but thank you for the message and > > I'll observe the > > >> moment > > >> of silence, Christopher. > > >> > > >> Visiting the memorial in person with people from > > this group was moving > > >> and a reminder that we need to keep these > > painful lessons from the > > >> past > > >> in mind as we build out these systems. > > >> > > >> > @Ian: I share your frustration with the > > surveillance economy, > > >> but feel > > >> > that your comment steps away from the ethos of > > our group. > > >> > > >> I'd like to underscore Daniel's comment. Many of > > us are in this group > > >> because we share in the frustration with the > > current surveillance > > >> economy. That said, the frustration is no excuse > > to tear down what > > >> others in the community are building. Your > > criticism was not > > >> constructive, please refrain from doing that > again. > > >> > > >> We need to focus on helping each other build the > > world that we want to > > >> see realized. > > >> > > >> -- manu > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Manu Sporny - > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/ > > >> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc. > > >> blog: Veres One Decentralized Identifier > > Blockchain Launches > > >> https://tinyurl.com/veres-one-launches > > >> > > > > -- > > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > >
Received on Saturday, 28 March 2020 19:53:02 UTC