Re: Privacy-protecting contact tracer for COVID-19? [was Re: A Moment of Silence #Foremembrance Today at 19:06 CET, 2:06 pm EDT, 11:06 am PDT, and Saturday at 2:06am in Hong Kong & Taipei]

On 3/28/20 12:55 AM, Ehud Shapiro  אהוד שפירא wrote:
> I mentioned the fact that it is open source not as a testimony for its 
> being good, but as a practical advice for people in countries that do 
> not have it, so that they can easily adopt it and adapt it to their own 
> country's needs.

While I agree with Paolo's point that being open source is not 
SUFFICIENT to ensure goodness, I think it is a NECESSARY condition for 
such an app, so that it can be scrutinized by all and gain the trust of 
the community.

David Booth

> Separately, I have sent an opinion by  Adi Shamir (the S in RSA, a 
> Turing-award winner and a leading authority on security and privacy).
> Be safe,
> Udi
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:33 AM Paola Di Maio <paoladimaio10@gmail.com 
> <mailto:paoladimaio10@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Well, thanks-
>     however
>     based on experience, let me also add
> 
>     that it does not matter how good honest open source the design is,
>     everything can be twisted and deployed in such a way contrary to
>     what the label says
>     an app can be designed to
>     a)  give everyone the impression is ethical and respects  privacy
>     and is really nice and friendly
>     b) does exactly the opposite - in ways that nobody can cognitively
>     discern due to secret state abuse
> 
>     for now I am leaving the phone at home when I go out
>     (I am very responsible and not infected and dont go out much at all
>     in fact)
> 
>     I have become rather suspicious of everything that rings
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ‪On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 12:11 PM ‫Ehud Shapiro אהוד שפירא‬‎
>     <ehud.shapiro@weizmann.ac.il <mailto:ehud.shapiro@weizmann.ac.il>>
>     wrote:‬
> 
>         Israel has a pretty good one.
>         It's open source
>         https://www.gov.il/en/departments/news/22032020_04
> 
> 
>         בתאריך שבת, 28 במרץ 2020 ב-6:56 מאת Paola Di Maio
>         <paola.dimaio@gmail.com <mailto:paola.dimaio@gmail.com>>:
> 
>             Hi David
>             this is important, thanks-
> 
>             I am in a location in Asia - better not specify since very
>             aggressive folks
>             have been tackling me at close range despite me taking all
>             the necessary precautions to prevent it
> 
>             I know that new visitors in quarantine are being phone tracked-
>             they are being informed as much, and agree to both the
>             quarantine and the tracking
> 
>             However the other day as I was sitting next to a local
>             friend, she received an alert on her phone, followed by a
>             phone call, all a local language which I do not understand
> 
>               After that, she started becoming very inquisitive about my
>             arrival date whereabouts and contacts to other foreigners
>             etc. I reassured her that I arrived long before the epidemic
>             started and have sparse contacts with other foreigners after
>             which she seemed reassured
> 
>             So, not only newcominers are being finromed of surveillance
>             and agree to it. but
>             there are mechanisms to alert citizens when their cell comes
>             into range of a cell which is registered to a foreign
>             passport, this is all under the radar afaik
> 
>             So your inquiry touches me personally
> 
>             How to design a good useful app that respects privacy.... 
>             tough one.
>             I think you need to design an expert system/decision support
>             tree
>             that the app must follow in the alert workflow
> 
>             I d design a decision tree first
>             Ping me offlist pls if you need my input
> 
>             PDM
> 
>             On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 11:38 AM David Booth
>             <david@dbooth.org <mailto:david@dbooth.org>> wrote:
> 
>                 On 3/27/20 11:18 PM, Moses Ma wrote:
>                  > How do y’all feel about Singapore’s TraceTogether?
>                  > See:
>                  >
>                 https://www.businessinsider.com/singapore-coronavirus-app-tracking-testing-no-shutdown-how-it-works-2020-3
>                  > Also:
>                  >
>                 https://www.tech.gov.sg/media/technews/tracetogether-behind-the-scenes-look-at-its-development-process
>                  >
>                  > How would you design a fully decentralized contact
>                 tracer?
> 
>                 Or, more broadly: how would you design a
>                 privacy-protecting contact
>                 tracer?  This is urgently needed.
> 
>                 Potential variations: 1. The app notifies you if it
>                 determines that you
>                 may have been exposed to COVID-19, without saying how it
>                 made that
>                 determination.  2. The app notifies healthcare officials
>                 that you may
>                 have been exposed, without telling them how it made that
>                 determination.
> 
>                 Ideas?
> 
>                 David Booth
> 
>                  >
>                  > Moses
>                  >
>                  >
>                  > -
>                  > *Moses Ma | FutureLab Consulting Inc*
>                  > moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com
>                 <mailto:moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com> |
>                 moses@ngenven.com <mailto:moses@ngenven.com>
>                  > v +1.415.952.7888 <tel:+1.415.952.7888> | m
>                 +1.415.568.1068
>                  > <tel:+1.415.568.1068> | skype mosesma
>                  >
>                  >
>                  >
>                  >> On Mar 27, 2020 at 9:44 AM, <Ian Smith
>                 <mailto:ian@vidicode.pro <mailto:ian@vidicode.pro>>> wrote:
>                  >>
>                  >> proposing anti covid-19 protests to avoid saving
>                 lives is part of the
>                  >> ethos here? I wasn't aware that preventing the
>                 countermeasure to
>                  >> pandemic response was what this group was about
>                  >>
>                  >> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 6:10 AM Manu Sporny
>                 <msporny@digitalbazaar.com
>                 <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
>                  >> <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com
>                 <mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com>>> wrote:
>                  >>
>                  >>     On 3/27/20 8:41 AM, Daniel Hardman wrote:
>                  >>     > I will try to join you. Thank you for
>                 suggesting it.
>                  >>
>                  >>     I can't join, but thank you for the message and
>                 I'll observe the
>                  >>     moment
>                  >>     of silence, Christopher.
>                  >>
>                  >>     Visiting the memorial in person with people from
>                 this group was moving
>                  >>     and a reminder that we need to keep these
>                 painful lessons from the
>                  >>     past
>                  >>     in mind as we build out these systems.
>                  >>
>                  >>     > @Ian: I share your frustration with the
>                 surveillance economy,
>                  >>     but feel
>                  >>     > that your comment steps away from the ethos of
>                 our group.
>                  >>
>                  >>     I'd like to underscore Daniel's comment. Many of
>                 us are in this group
>                  >>     because we share in the frustration with the
>                 current surveillance
>                  >>     economy. That said, the frustration is no excuse
>                 to tear down what
>                  >>     others in the community are building. Your
>                 criticism was not
>                  >>     constructive, please refrain from doing that again.
>                  >>
>                  >>     We need to focus on helping each other build the
>                 world that we want to
>                  >>     see realized.
>                  >>
>                  >>     -- manu
>                  >>
>                  >>     --
>                  >>     Manu Sporny -
>                 https://www.linkedin.com/in/manusporny/
>                  >>     Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
>                  >>     blog: Veres One Decentralized Identifier
>                 Blockchain Launches
>                  >> https://tinyurl.com/veres-one-launches
>                  >>
> 
>         -- 
>         Sent from Gmail Mobile
> 

Received on Saturday, 28 March 2020 12:28:43 UTC