[MINUTES] W3C CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2020-08-10 12pm ET

Thanks to Stuart Freeman for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force telecon are now available:

https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-08-10-vc-education 

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon Minutes for 2020-08-10

Agenda:
  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2020Aug/0031.html
Topics:
  1. Introductions & Reintroductions
  2. Modeling VCs for education
Organizer:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy and Wayne Chang and Heather Vescent
Scribe:
  Stuart Freeman
Present:
  Kim Hamilton Duffy, James Chartrand, J. Philipp Schmidt, Stuart 
  Freeman, Juan Caballero, George Artem, Robbie Jones, Dmitri 
  Zagidulin, Kerri Lemoie, Jeanne Kitchens, Nate Otto, Nathan 
  George, Jim Goodell, Adam Lemmon, Chris Winczewski, Simone 
  Ravaoli, Taylor Kendall, Tzviya Siegman, Phil Archer
Audio:
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-08-10/audio.ogg

Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/community/credentials/join
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://www.w3.org/accounts/request
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/
Did we start to use jitsi?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/
Juan Caballero: Thanks stewart!
Stuart Freeman is scribing.
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Introductions and re-intros

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

James_Dz: with blockchain group at kaiser permanente
Nate Otto: Present 50% (double booked today not on audio)
George Artem:  George Artem from Seatte, WA [scribe assist by Kim 
  Hamilton Duffy]
Nathan George:  UW grad student, trying to do a vc pilot
Jeanne Kitchens:  With credential engine

Topic: Modeling VCs for education

Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pt-VNnjoYgl23Mlu0Tjyax5RgANPBfDijERz0SNYfSo/edit#
  ... updates, context: building a document with the goal of 
  clarifying fitting existing schemas to the vc format
  ... document pulls together examples of best practices pilots
  ... we're an incubation org not a standards org, but we work 
  with the standards orgs to ensure we're going the correct 
  direction
  ... document outlines types of credentials people want to 
  create
  ... one interesting area is what to do with xml
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pt-VNnjoYgl23Mlu0Tjyax5RgANPBfDijERz0SNYfSo/edit#heading=h.t19npk98rich
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Example: 
  https://github.com/european-commission-europass/Europass-Learning-Model/blob/master/XML%20Examples/Ildiko%20Mazar_Certificate%20of%20Excellence.xml
  ... example 4 shows transcribing to json, but is currently in 
  xml
  ... why not as easy as just mapping to json, xml format for 
  conforming to European legal standards
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2020-07-21/#topic-3
Kim Hamilton Duffy: 
  https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1R_vM55wQyJ5jiiD6ro3crCFIvC2TGxyZ8_B2t45RXFo/edit#slide=id.g8c7bea63ca_0_68
  ... may take months to year to get legal approval for json, 
  could just do xml to conform to current legal reqs
  ... we don't want to wait for legislature to allow other 
  signature suites
  ... extend vc data model to express support for xml mapping 
  including any necessary context needed in w3c
  ... credentials community group is the home for the vc data 
  model
  ... not a general recommendation for any group serializing xml
  ... a case by case decision, to make it easier for ppl with 
  strict xml requirements
Kim Hamilton Duffy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XAdES
  ... hoping that changes from w3c will allow edci to continue 
  using xml formatted credentials
  ... as well as other groups such as scholarly publishing
  ... moving on to open discussion topics
  ... generalization of vocab, discussion of issuance roles and 
  impact,
  ... ler wrapper standardization
JimKelly_PESC: launched as ilr recommended practices, work is now 
  underway
Simone Ravaoli:  Ilr working group meeting thursday 11am eastern
  ... beginning base document for the workstream, build on w3c 
  work
  ... wrapper doc and doc we're discussing today
Nate Otto: @Kimhd I will join the audio stream for this meeting 
  then
  ... join call on thurs if you are interested
  ... will go through base doc and governance issues
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Will assume ieee is home for ler going 
  forward, and try to keep our docs up to date
  ... we are standards integration and getting pilots off the 
  ground
  ... ieee is more a combination of standardization (taking our 
  work as examples) as well as concerns around governance
  ... next discuss generalization of vocab
http://bit.ly/IEEE-ILR-WG
  ... context, pilots want to work with the standard, but aren't 
  familiar with the existing work
Robbie Jones: I can see the agenda
Simone Ravaoli: Correction Agenda link for IEEE ILR - 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tkcBk3qHEG5CnPXJp8c7Yt1KMdQ4Xx1tTl1LpFuRx5c/edit
Nate Otto: Catching up, we're on page 2 of this document: 
  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pt-VNnjoYgl23Mlu0Tjyax5RgANPBfDijERz0SNYfSo/edit
  ... want to integrate with existing standards groups like open 
  badges
Nate Otto:  There's a common pattern accross these groups
  ... defined credential or badge can be issued to multiple 
  people over time
  ... can we use a property across use cases
  ... "degree" seems limiting
  ... could use something like "badge" or invent something new
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  "Has achieved" seems like it fits well 
  across standards
  ... could compare ler
Kerri Lemoie:  Is this to say "has achieved this type of 
  credential"?
Nate Otto:  Not type, you could say has acchieved bachelors, but 
  we want to say has achieved bachelors of (subject) from 
  (institution)
  ... could also map to skills
Kerri Lemoie: CTID info: 
  https://credreg.net/registry/handbook#ctid
Jeanne Kitchens:  Ctid does not indicate a cred has been issued, 
  more like a unique product identifier
Nate Otto: I asserted "A credential has been assigned an ID by 
  Credential Engine" as the definition of "CTID"
Kerri Lemoie: +1 To bridge
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Credential engine also has a registry of 
  credential types, we're talking about helping bridge between 
  these registries and actual degrees
JimKelly_PESC: like "has achieved" as a generalization, but where 
  does it live? in the wrapper?
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Vc itself is just the wrapper, ler/ilr is a 
  lot like this
  ... the terms and type definitions will likely live at the 
  standards body, this is the bridge
Nate Otto:  There's a separation of wrapper standard and payload 
  standard
  ... can use flexible range
  ... can we come up with a consistent way to represent across 
  standards
  ... could start by trying pilots with "has achieved"
  ... prove that this has value in the market then bring it to 
  the standards body that we are bridging in the pilot
  ... not forcing another standards body to adopt, but provide 
  open standard so they can
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Nate do you want to respond?
Tzviya Siegman:  Sounds like you allow other standards to 
  implement this so they can be compatible, that could be a heavy 
  lift
Nate Otto:  If we can prove the value of the approach the 
  standards may follow
  ... opportunity for standards bodies to align with wrapper and 
  payload to prove interoperability
  ... allow machine understanding of the credential
  ... learn enough to be able to get to machine understanding
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Nate I'll give you the floor to respond
Phil Archer:  Clarification, looks to be proper use of the 
  "extensions" property of badges
Nate Otto:  Don't think this quite "extensions"
  ... can duplicate data in properties to layer in w3c properties
  ... not enough to meaningfully validate
  ... probably could use the "extensions" but it's probably not 
  enough to do this
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  Defining "has achieved" in open badges, we 
  could pass this along to them to see if they'd adopt
Tzviya Siegman:  In badging, issuing organization may not be the 
  same kind of organization as a credential, can we assert 
  accreditation by university?
Nate Otto:  Open badges infers that the definer of the achievment 
  is the only one who can issue
  ... there could be use cases for making more generic 
  achievments that can be issued by someone other than the creator
JimKelly_PESC: this feels like just one of many characteristics 
  that may be required for true interop
  ... could come up with a whole set that need to be shared 
  across payload specs
Kim Hamilton Duffy:  That's true, don't want to reinvent the 
  wheel
  ... use best practices from different standards bodies, would 
  love to just use an existing set of terms if they exist
  ... as a pilot group we have to id those and turn them over to 
  standards groups
  ... like proceeding with "has achieved"
  ... proposal: these are using json-ld, maintain a set of 
  work-in-progress schemas
  ... dcc has a playground for experimenting with creds, would 
  like to update that to point to examples from here
Nate Otto: Glad to hear some good support for has achieved. 
  Looking forward to working the action items. Action item could 
  be: make recommendations of vocabularies where hasAchieved could 
  be situated for good interoperability and community usage. 
  Develop JSON-LD-schema/JSON-schema is a good action item

Received on Tuesday, 11 August 2020 20:11:58 UTC