- From: Adrian Gropper <agropper@healthurl.com>
- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 11:44:16 -0500
- To: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
- Cc: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>, W3C Credentials Community Group <public-credentials@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CANYRo8jkidt+6mjxRvgMqf68CV=N_UpVjnmzp6QNGWpgvWdu8g@mail.gmail.com>
I presented DID and VC at a payment handlers symposium organized by W3C in Wall Street last week. The W3C organizers loved the discussion and I met a few of the folks in the audience during the day. I think it's very important to reconcile the work of W3C on payments and identifiers. Please let me know if I can help. Adrian On Sun, Nov 24, 2019 at 11:31 AM Anders Rundgren < anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Manu, > Thanx for the prompt answer. From: > https://w3c-ccg.github.io/credential-handler-api/ > I extracted the following line: > > "This specification does not address how software built with > operating-system specific mechanisms (e.g., "native mobile apps") > handle credential requests and credential storage" > > Your buddies in the W3C Payment WG stubbornly continue with Web based > Payment Handlers although all payment providers I know of put their muscles > behind native apps. > The PR/Android and PR/iOS is all that was needed, and it is a deal done. > > > https://github.com/cyberphone/doc/blob/gh-pages/payments/paymenthandler.md#the-w3c-paymenthandler > > WebAuth as a solution for payments also seem like a unlikely win. > > Pardon, me for interfering, I will remain silent now :-) > > Anders > > On 2019-11-24 16:27, Manu Sporny wrote: > > On 11/24/19 1:23 AM, Anders Rundgren wrote: > >> Hi Manu, From the ZCAP-LD draft: > >> > >> "Web-based applications could provide choice in Key Management > >> Systems -- potentially allowing customers to bring their own Key > >> Management Systems with them just as they bring their own devices > >> today" > >> > >> Wouldn't it be logical to have KMSes in these devices as well? > > > > Yes, either in the devices (where the WebKMS driver is WebAuthn) or > > using the device's keys to access a remote HSM (where the WebKMS driver > > is something like AWS Cloud HSM). > > > > All the pieces are there today... mobile phones do have HSMs that are > > accessible via native applications and soon to be broadly accessible via > > WebAuthn. > > > >> I may [surely] be biased but this is at least what my 10Y+(!) > >> SKS/KeyGen2 project builds on. The (ab)use of W3C's PaymentRequest > >> made it pretty cool as well :-) > >> https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/web/calling-apps-from-the-web.pdf > > > > Yes, and this is why the Credential Handler API (CHAPI) is designed the > > way it is and supports not only sending Verifiable Credentials through > > CHAPI, but ZCAPs as well. CHAPI was built from years of hard won > > knowledge gained (and mistakes made) during the creation of Payment > > Request and Payment Handler in the Web Payments WG. > > > >> The use-case you mention like car keys are very interesting but I > >> can't imagine that car keys would be stored anywhere but in client > >> devices. Now, how do you get such keys? In my world through > >> (non-standard) authentication to a service provider. I.e. I (FWIW) > >> do not see that an end-user would ever talk directly to a cloud-HSM, > >> that's reserved for service providers. > > > > Yes, keys can be on client devices, and they can also exist in the > > cloud, and it's up to the application to determine which keys will be > > used to do what. > > > > WebKMS provides the added flexibility of being able to lose your phone > > and all of your phone HSM keys, but not have to rotate out your signing > > keys, which exist in the cloud HSM. WebKMS isn't really meant to be > > accessed directly from the Web, but will most likely sit behind an > > agent/digital wallet of some kind. > > > > To summarize, these scenarios are possible via WebKMS: > > > > * Local HSM only > > * Cloud HSM only > > * Local HSM that authzs to Cloud HSM > > * Local HSM that authzs to shared Cloud HSM (multisig) > > > > ... and the benefit of WebKMS is that the same operations are possible > > via a unified API for the four scenarios above. Clearly, lots of > > discussion needs to happen, and this isn't as fundamental as VCs and > > DIDs... but if folks want to do key management in an interoperable way, > > WebKMS is one possible way forward. > > > > -- manu > > > > > -- Adrian Gropper MD PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy! HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data. DONATE: https://patientprivacyrights.org/donate-3/
Received on Sunday, 24 November 2019 16:44:30 UTC