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Re: Automated minutes publication

From: Moses Ma <moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2019 11:11:49 -0800
To: Stephen Curran <swcurran@cloudcompass.ca>, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Cc: "W3C Credentials CG (Public List)" <public-credentials@w3.org>
Message-ID: <455c2ec7-8433-433b-9a10-687b344c5390@Moses-iPad-Pro-105>
      
  

 I use Zoom, but I can’t figure out how to turn on the auto transcription function.
  
😁
  
  
  
  
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Moses Ma | FutureLab Consulting Inc
  
moses.ma@futurelabconsulting.com |   moses@ngenven.com
  
v  +1.415.952.7888 (tel:+1.415.952.7888)  | m  +1.415.568.1068 (tel:+1.415.568.1068)  | skype mosesma
  

      
  

  
  
>   
> On Nov 17, 2019 at 9:46 AM,  <Stephen Curran (mailto:swcurran@cloudcompass.ca)>  wrote:
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> Interesting arguments, and the accessibility is the one that resonates. Thanks for taking the time to send them.    I'm hoping that you take that email and put it in a document for others dumb enough to start this conversation again. If you do, please add what it is that IRC brings to this vs. any other in-conference chat system (like the one in Zoom, for example).
>   
>  I don't see that the "missing" features listed are actual requirements but rather as ways to keep things working as they have in the good old days. Even    a queue management protocol is available in Zoom. As long as you come out of a meeting with a recording (voice and the completely unnecessary :-) screen sharing), transcript and chat log, each in a non-proprietary format, you should be good, right? Bonus points if the in-call experience is great.  
>   
>
>   
> On the more serious topic of accessibility, I'd be interested in the feedback of those with real experience. Given that Zoom is a mainstream tool that people in the software industry today encounter on a daily basis, and SIP/IRC tools here are unknown to all classes of users other than those already in this group, which is more accessible? And which is going to be more accessible tomorrow?
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> My overall point is that the system is a not insignificant barrier to participation from a broader populace.
>   
>  No response needed, we've both made our points. While I would love to see a change, I'm good to end this discussion on a "we disagree" basis.     
>   
>   
> On Sat, Nov 16, 2019 at 6:37 PM Manu Sporny  <msporny@digitalbazaar.com (mailto:msporny@digitalbazaar.com)>  wrote:
>   
> >  On 11/16/19 5:15 PM, Stephen Curran wrote:
> >   >  Yup - I know you've had to deal with that question before - my
> >   >  apologizes.    I just can't figure out the motivation to stay with
> >   >  this. So two more questions, if you would indulge me:
> >   >
> >   >  1.    What part of the service must be open source?
> >   
> >  Ideally, all of it. Or at least it should use open standards for all
> >  parts. The issue is vendor lock in. A number of years ago, Skype was all
> >  the rage and we were having this same discussion. Now it's Zoom. The
> >  issue is that some poor sap has to write the software and when people
> >  decide to jump from one proprietary vendor to another, all of the
> >  software needs to be rewritten to match the new proprietary APIs.
> >   
> >   >  From that list, Zoom (and others) does all that except it's not open
> >   >    source.
> >   
> >  Ehh, Zoom also doesn't do the following things on the list:
> >   
> >  * Bridges to IRC for control
> >  * Does queue management
> >  * Automatically records/archives/uploads IRC logs
> >   
> >  It's just a simple matter of programming to write something that does
> >  those things and integrates into Zoom... and of course, someone would
> >  have to volunteer to pick up the cost for the Zoom account to host/run
> >  the meetings. Digital Bazaar has been doing that for the past decade or
> >  so, and we'd welcome someone else picking up the maintenance and
> >  operations costs :).
> >   
> >  So, if someone would like to put in the work (and pick up the cost), I'm
> >  sure the group might consider it... especially since we have a fall back
> >  solution now w/ PBX/SIP/IRC. In the very worst case, we can fall back to
> >  what we're doing today (which is why I think Zoom could be an option).
> >   
> >   >  The functions listed would be done slightly differently in some
> >   >  cases, but every one of them is supported today. After the recording
> >   >  and chat log is captured and put into github, etc. does the call
> >   >  management system matter?
> >   
> >  It does, and I'll explain why below.
> >   
> >   >  2. When is the existing system going to be upgraded to support
> >   >  screen sharing?
> >   >
> >   >  I suspect that might take even longer to the existing system than
> >   >  adding the features you list. I'm certain that eventually, the need
> >   >  for that feature will overcome the argument against staying with the
> >   >  current system.
> >   
> >  I don't find screen sharing that compelling of a feature. Yes, super
> >  useful for demos, sharing slide decks, etc... but most of the decisions
> >  made in the standards realm don't require screen sharing... I mean, we
> >  built the Internet and Web to where it is today without screen sharing.
> >   
> >  I will grant that it's useful every now and then, but keep in mind that
> >  Adrian's recent presentation to the group was just as easily
> >  accomplished by sharing the slide deck before the call (which is good
> >  form so that everyone has a copy) and then going through it calling out
> >  slide numbers so folks can go at their own pace.
> >   
> >   >  I gather this is a W3C requirement?
> >   
> >  Since we're a Community Group, we can run the calls however we'd like as
> >  long as we're keeping the IPR clean.
> >   
> >  That said, there is one argument against Zoom that isn't easily cast
> >  aside... and that is that what you're suggesting we use it for
> >  marginalizes people with accessibility needs.
> >   
> >  The reason we largely use open standards and text to communicate is that
> >  it's easily converted into forms that people with accessibility needs
> >  can use to engage. Text to speech is vital for people that can't see,
> >  and multi-modal presentations are so incredibly challenging when you
> >  can't see but can hear, or you can't hear, but you can see.
> >   
> >  To help illustrate the problem, the next time someone starts screen
> >  sharing, shut your monitor off and just listen to what they're saying...
> >  and then interrupt them every time they try to convey something by
> >  highlighting the screen, or circling a part of the screen with their
> >  mouse, or saying "so, as you can see on the left...". Your desire to
> >  interrupt, or just stay silent and see if you can figure out what
> >  they're saying with other context, will lead to a certain uneasiness
> >  leaving you at a disadvantage wrt. the discussion.
> >   
> >  ... and that's the real problem with screen sharing... it lacks
> >  affordances and metadata that's necessary to make it accessible to
> >  people with certain accessibility needs.
> >   
> >  The Web is for all, and W3C has a mandate to ensure that it builds and
> >  uses systems that are broadly accessible. That means using open
> >  standards and making accessibility mandatory.
> >   
> >  I haven't heard the W3C Accessible Platform Architectures WG take on
> >  using Zoom for screen sharing at W3C meetings, but if you're game for
> >  proposing it, I'll bring my popcorn along for the show. :P
> >   
> >  So, I guess what I'm trying to say, is that suggesting that we use a
> >  proprietary system with questionable accessibility characteristics and a
> >  mode of communication that marginalizes certain people with
> >  accessibility needs is unlikely to be seen in a positive light by folks
> >  that are trying to build an open Web for all.
> >   
> >  """
> >  The power of the Web is in its universality.
> >  Access by everyone regardless of disability is an essential aspect.
> >  """
> >   
> >  -- Tim Berners-Lee
> >   
> >  """
> >  Access to information and communications technologies, including the
> >  Web, is a basic human right.
> >  """
> >   
> >  -- UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities
> >   
> >   https://www.w3.org/standards/webdesign/accessibility
> >   
> >  -- manu
> >   
> >  --
> >  Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny)
> >  Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> >  blog: Veres One Decentralized Identifier Blockchain Launches
> >   https://tinyurl.com/veres-one-launches
> >   
>     
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>  --
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>   Stephen Curran
>   Principal, Cloud Compass Computing, Inc. (C3I)
>  Technical Governance Board Member - Sovrin Foundation (sovrin.org)
>
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>
> Schedule a Meeting:   https://calendly.com/swcurran
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Received on Sunday, 17 November 2019 19:12:01 UTC

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