Re: 235 on styles and fonts

On 18/02/2021 10:28 a.m., Rachael Bradley Montgomery wrote:
> Hello,
> We already discussed that the lower level headings are incredibly hard 
> to read. We are specifically avoiding them as a result. I suggest we 
> put this on the list of places that COGA needs to engage.
> Michael,
> Can you tell us who we talk to in order to engage with the TR style 
> updates?

The formal way to do this is file an issue in the TR design repo,

To speak to a human, I would start with Philippe Le Hégaret. I'll put 
this topic on my list for my next chat with him, but won't be able to do 
much driving of the issue.


> Thank you,
> Rachael
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:25 AM Michael Cooper < 
> <>> wrote:
>     I can help with the process aspects of this. A few things to be
>     aware of: 1) the TR styles are updated once per year at most,
>     after a review process, meaning it could take up to 2 years for
>     changes to show up. 2) Major changes to styles that impact all
>     users may not be supported. I'd encourage exploring a
>     personalization approach, which might include adding a "customize
>     style" widget to TR pages, rather than redo the styles globally
>     given the variety of preferences.
>     Michael
>     On 17/02/2021 12:01 p.m., Rain Michaels wrote:
>>     I'm also not seeing the linked issue for fonts, but I am very
>>     much in favor of discussing this and perhaps suggesting a change
>>     to the W3C styles. This sounds like a pretty big feat, and I'd be
>>     willing to take responsibility for it if someone more seasoned is
>>     willing to guide me through the process.
>>     As an individual who struggles with visual reading, I have always
>>     personally had a lot of difficulty with default browser styles
>>     across the board, and also have long struggled with these very
>>     documents on the W3C site. Challenges:
>>       * The font itself (largely because of the letter spacing)
>>       * The line height of the font (far too tight)
>>     The advantage of the current style is that it uses "sans-serif"
>>     instead of a specific font, which means that any user who has
>>     taken time to customize their default browser fonts will get
>>     their individual preference instead of the default of helvetica
>>     or arial. Unfortunately, very few people who might benefit from
>>     this know that this is something they can do, and this doesn't
>>     resolve the line height issue.
>>     We know that increased line height supports users with reading
>>     disabilities because it makes it easier to track line to line. We
>>     also know that increased letter spacing can help (which is also
>>     not something the user can set in browser preferences).
>>     What we *do not know* is which fonts are going to be easiest for
>>     an individual, as this is highly personal and rather learned.
>>     I've known individuals with dyslexia who cannot read Arial, which
>>     is largely touted as the best standard font for supporting
>>     readers with dyslexia. I've also spoken with individuals with
>>     dyslexia who prefer Times New Roman, a serif font largely
>>     considered bad for individuals with dyslexia, simply because it
>>     is the font they lived with through school and now find most
>>     familiar.
>>     That said, I typically use Poppins for preparing materials for
>>     individuals that I work and codesign with who have cognitive
>>     disabilities because it is a nice wide font that uses the a with
>>     no hat instead of the a with a hat. I have yet to have anyone
>>     tell me that Poppins is challenging for them, and it is a font
>>     that I often use as a default for my own documents because I find
>>     it easier to read, as well.
>>     The COGA documents on supporting users with dyslexia already give
>>     a lot of this guidance, and so it may be worth recommending that
>>     the W3C styles be changed (even if not in the near term) to
>>     better match this guidance.
>>     Rain
>>     On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 7:57 AM Kinney, Kris Anne
>>     < <>> wrote:
>>         Is there a linked issue referring to the fonts?
>>         I don’t see any reference to the fonts used in the issue, I
>>         only see a question on the consistency of the formatting of
>>         the list items through the document.    Am I missing a piece?
>>         Thanks,
>>         Kris Anne
>>         -- 
>>         Kris Anne Kinney, CPACC
>>         Accessibility Specialist
>>         609-734-1466 <tel:(609)%20734-1466>
>>         The only thing worse than being blind is having sight with no
>>         vision.  ~ Helen Keller
>>         Have a request for an accessibility review?  Please submit an
>>         Accessibility Work Request
>>         <> on
>>         SharePoint.
>>         *From: *Michael Cooper < <>>
>>         *Date: *Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 10:32 AM
>>         *To: *Lisa Seeman <
>>         <>>, public-cognitive-a11y-tf
>>         <
>>         <>>
>>         *Subject: *Re: 235 on styles and fonts
>>         I'm not sure about the context of this question, but if it's
>>         about the TR version of content usable, no, we can't change
>>         the font, it's part of the W3C styles that we can't override.
>>         Issues with the W3C styles should be filed in
>>         <>.
>>         Michael
>>         On 17/02/2021 6:24 a.m., Lisa Seeman wrote:
>>             Hi Folks
>>             Issue 235
>>             <>
>>             on styles, has pointed out that the fonts are not easy to
>>             read.
>>             I hate to have this conversation but what font do we prefer?
>>             I  suggest the browser default. (Michael is that possible)
>>             All the best
>>             Lisa
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> -- 
> Rachael Montgomery, PhD
> Director, Accessible Community
> <>
> "I will paint this day with laughter;
> I will frame this night in song."
>  - Og Mandino

Received on Thursday, 18 February 2021 15:48:26 UTC