Re: Ajustes em termos da tradução WCAG 2.2

Bom dia pessoal!


Agora eu entendi melhor a solicitação.

Dado o escopo e a finalidade, também acredito que podemos seguir com as 
solicitações sem prejudicar o entendimento do conteúdo.

por mim podemos seguir.


abraços


Em 13/02/2025 14:03, Reinaldo Ferraz escreveu:
>
> A da escolaridade eles sugerem tirar o texto e não colocar nota. Eles 
> acham que por ser uma definição internacional da UNESCO, a nota da 
> tradução não deveria existir e que a tradução deveria ser o suficiente 
> para contemplar a definição internacional.
>
> Para o W3C, o ideal é manter somente "nível de educação primário" e 
> "nível de educação secundário inferior".
>
> O ponto deles faz sentido, já que essa é uma tradução direta do 
> documento, mas se acharem que esse ajuste é imprescindível, devemos 
> montar uma argumentação mais robusta.
>
> Abs
> Reinaldo
>
> Em 13/02/2025 13:21, Uilian Vigentim escreveu:
>>
>> Boa tarde pessoal!
>>
>>
>> Não vejo problemas em prosseguir com as alterações.
>>
>> Só manteria a nota acerca da escolaridade por uma questão social e 
>> cultural no Brasil.
>>
>>
>> abraços.
>>
>>
>>
>> Em 13/02/2025 10:25, Reinaldo Ferraz escreveu:
>>>
>>> Bom dia.
>>>
>>> O W3C ainda está no processo de revisão do documento. Eles estão 
>>> fazendo uma revisão bem detalhada e questionando alguns pontos. Dois 
>>> deles precisam de ajustes:
>>>
>>> - Na parte do glossário, em "legendas descritivas", eles sugerem que 
>>> a definição permaneça como "legendas" e devemos adicionar uma "Nota 
>>> de tradução" explicando esse contexto. Algo como:
>>>
>>> [Nota de tradução: Para fins de adequação para português, legendas, 
>>> como definido neste glossário, se refere a legendas descritivas ]
>>>
>>> - Na parte do nível de escolaridade eles sugerem tirarmos a sentença 
>>> "para esta tradução, a comparação com o cenário brasileiro foi 
>>> obtida pela BNCC", já que a definição original vem de uma definição 
>>> internacional. Nesse caso nem deveria entrar em uma nota de tradução.
>>>
>>> Se estiverem de acordo, faço os ajustes no documento para seguirmos 
>>> adiante, ou então precisamos escrever justificativas além das que 
>>> fiz nesse e-mail.
>>>
>>> Aguardo as considerações do grupo.
>>>
>>> Abraços
>>> Reinaldo
>>>
>>> -------- Mensagem encaminhada --------
>>> Assunto:  Re: Fwd: WCAG 2.2 pt-br translation
>>> Data:  Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:58:39 +0100
>>> De:  Rémi BETIN <remi@w3.org>
>>> Para:  Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Reinaldo,
>>>
>>> After more discussion and consideration, please find our feedback below:
>>>
>>> a) It is paramount that Authorized translations do not change or 
>>> adapt or add to the meaning of the original standards, since W3C 
>>> Recommendations follow an extensive process based on consensus.
>>>
>>> For the translation of “captions”, we prefer that you keep 
>>> “legendas”. The glossary definition is intended to clarify that 
>>> “legendas” are not a dialog-only transcription in the context of 
>>> WCAG. If the stakeholders feel the need to indicate that this type 
>>> of "legendas” are often/also called “legendas descritivas”, we would 
>>> be more comfortable if this was done in a translator’s note, to 
>>> identify this is coming from the translators and not as a result of 
>>> the W3C process.
>>>
>>> The best way for now is to integrate translator’s notes into the 
>>> text, enclosed in square brackets, and introduced by the expression 
>>> “Translator’s note:” (translated into the target language).
>>>
>>> Example: [Translator’s note: The content of your note]
>>>
>>> The best location for the captions translator’s note would probably 
>>> be after the glossary definition of “legendas” [1], in a new 
>>> paragraph just before the "NOTA 1”.
>>>
>>> b) After further consideration, we think the comparison with the 
>>> Brazilian context is not strictly necessary for the meaning. The 
>>> glossary definition is based on an international classification, and 
>>> gives ages and duration ranges rather than country-specific level names.
>>>
>>> We think inline translator’s notes should be avoided as much as 
>>> possible, and only added when they are strictly necessary to 
>>> correctly understand the meaning of the text in the targeted 
>>> language and regions.
>>>
>>> We are currently exploring how this other type of useful information 
>>> could be made available to the readers in another form (for example, 
>>> in a separate document). We plan to address this issue by June, and 
>>> will keep you informed. For this publication however, we prefer that 
>>> you remove these additions from the translation.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Rémi.
>>>
>>> [1] https://www.w3c.br/traducoes/wcag/wcag22-pt-BR/#dfn-captions
>>>
>>>> From: Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br>
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 09:27:43 -0300
>>>> To: xueyuan <xueyuan@w3.org>
>>>> Cc: "group-wai-translations@w3.org" <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
>>>> Message-ID: <c3ba7b2c-dfdc-49ce-9cf4-ed50738576b0@nic.br>
>>>> Hi Xueyuan,
>>>>
>>>> (a) The reviewers and stakeholders suggested this change because in
>>>> Portuguese, "captions" and "subtitles" both have a literal translation
>>>> as  "legendas", but there is a important difference. Considering the
>>>> WAI  definition[1]:
>>>>
>>>> "Captions are a text version of the speech and non-speech audio
>>>> information needed to understand the content. They are displayed 
>>>> within
>>>> the media player and are synchronized with the audio."
>>>>
>>>> In Portuguese, we consider "legendas descritivas" to be the same
>>>> definition as a caption. We should make clear that is not a dialog 
>>>> only
>>>> "legenda" (subtitle). Here is an example translated from the Federal
>>>> University of São Paulo [2]
>>>>
>>>>   "(legenda descritiva) include non-verbal information, that is, in
>>>> addition to dialogue, they contain sound effects, ambient sounds and
>>>> other information that could not be perceived or understood by people
>>>> with hearing impairments."
>>>>
>>>> The reviewer's and stakeholders' concerns are that using only 
>>>> "legendas"
>>>> for "caption" causes people to misunderstand and use them as subtitles
>>>> instead of captions.
>>>>
>>>> (b) No problem to add this sentence in a "translator note:".
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>>
>>>> Reinaldo
>>>>
>>>>> From: xueyuan <xueyuan@w3.org>
>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 16:50:27 +0800
>>>>> To: Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br>
>>>>> Cc: "group-wai-translations@w3.org" <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
>>>>> Message-ID: <e41a4fc1-1d9e-4510-8270-ebff85a169c8@w3.org>
>>>>> Hi Reinaldo,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your prompt response.
>>>>>
>>>>> Following the review summary you sent [1] and the detailed 
>>>>> explanation
>>>>> [2], I am relaying the feedback from our WAI colleagues as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>> (a) Changing CS 1.2.2 "legendas" to "legendas descritivas" for 
>>>>> "captions"
>>>>>
>>>>> [feedback] The English original only uses “Captions”’ and gives more
>>>>> details in the glossary definition. We would like to know more 
>>>>> about the
>>>>> rationale for this change, to make sure that specifying “legendas
>>>>> descritivas” does not alter the initial intention.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you please clarify the rationale for the change above?
>>>>>
>>>>> (b) We added the sentence "para esta tradução, a comparação com o
>>>>> cenário brasileiro foi obtida pela BNCC" that means "for this
>>>>> translation, the comparison with the Brazilian context was obtained
>>>>> through the BNCC" to both notes about the education level in the 
>>>>> glossary.
>>>>>
>>>>> [feedback] Those additions are useful to the readers, but it would be
>>>>> better to display them in specific “translator note:” boxes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our team is currently discussing the translator's note policy. We 
>>>>> will
>>>>> keep you updated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Xueyuan
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2024OctDec/0011.html
>>>>> [2]
>>>>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Group/group-wai-translations/2024Nov/0027.html