Re: Ajustes em termos da tradução WCAG 2.2

Bom dia!

Concordo também com as mudanças sugeridas.

Abraços,

Thiago


Em sex., 14 de fev. de 2025 às 08:36, Uilian Vigentim <
uilian.vigentim@unesp.br> escreveu:

> Bom dia pessoal!
>
>
> Agora eu entendi melhor a solicitação.
>
> Dado o escopo e a finalidade, também acredito que podemos seguir com as
> solicitações sem prejudicar o entendimento do conteúdo.
>
> por mim podemos seguir.
>
>
> abraços
>
>
> Em 13/02/2025 14:03, Reinaldo Ferraz escreveu:
>
> A da escolaridade eles sugerem tirar o texto e não colocar nota. Eles
> acham que por ser uma definição internacional da UNESCO, a nota da tradução
> não deveria existir e que a tradução deveria ser o suficiente para
> contemplar a definição internacional.
>
> Para o W3C, o ideal é manter somente "nível de educação primário" e "nível
> de educação secundário inferior".
>
> O ponto deles faz sentido, já que essa é uma tradução direta do documento,
> mas se acharem que esse ajuste é imprescindível, devemos montar uma
> argumentação mais robusta.
>
> Abs
> Reinaldo
> Em 13/02/2025 13:21, Uilian Vigentim escreveu:
>
> Boa tarde pessoal!
>
>
> Não vejo problemas em prosseguir com as alterações.
>
> Só manteria a nota acerca da escolaridade por uma questão social e
> cultural no Brasil.
>
>
> abraços.
>
>
>
> Em 13/02/2025 10:25, Reinaldo Ferraz escreveu:
>
> Bom dia.
>
> O W3C ainda está no processo de revisão do documento. Eles estão fazendo
> uma revisão bem detalhada e questionando alguns pontos. Dois deles precisam
> de ajustes:
>
> - Na parte do glossário, em "legendas descritivas", eles sugerem que a
> definição permaneça como "legendas" e devemos adicionar uma "Nota de
> tradução" explicando esse contexto. Algo como:
>
> [Nota de tradução: Para fins de adequação para português, legendas, como
> definido neste glossário, se refere a legendas descritivas ]
> - Na parte do nível de escolaridade eles sugerem tirarmos a sentença "para
> esta tradução, a comparação com o cenário brasileiro foi obtida pela BNCC",
> já que a definição original vem de uma definição internacional. Nesse caso
> nem deveria entrar em uma nota de tradução.
>
> Se estiverem de acordo, faço os ajustes no documento para seguirmos
> adiante, ou então precisamos escrever justificativas além das que fiz nesse
> e-mail.
>
> Aguardo as considerações do grupo.
>
> Abraços
> Reinaldo
>
> -------- Mensagem encaminhada --------
> Assunto: Re: Fwd: WCAG 2.2 pt-br translation
> Data: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 16:58:39 +0100
> De: Rémi BETIN <remi@w3.org> <remi@w3.org>
> Para: Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br> <reinaldo@nic.br>
>
> Dear Reinaldo,
>
> After more discussion and consideration, please find our feedback below:
>
> a) It is paramount that Authorized translations do not change or adapt or
> add to the meaning of the original standards, since W3C Recommendations
> follow an extensive process based on consensus.
>
> For the translation of “captions”, we prefer that you keep “legendas”. The
> glossary definition is intended to clarify that “legendas” are not a
> dialog-only transcription in the context of WCAG. If the stakeholders feel
> the need to indicate that this type of "legendas” are often/also called
> “legendas descritivas”, we would be more comfortable if this was done in a
> translator’s note, to identify this is coming from the translators and
> not as a result of the W3C process.
>
> The best way for now is to integrate translator’s notes into the text,
> enclosed in square brackets, and introduced by the expression “Translator’s
> note:” (translated into the target language).
>
> Example: [Translator’s note: The content of your note]
>
> The best location for the captions translator’s note would probably be
> after the glossary definition of “legendas” [1], in a new paragraph just before
> the "NOTA 1”.
>
> b) After further consideration, we think the comparison with the Brazilian
> context is not strictly necessary for the meaning. The glossary definition
> is based on an international classification, and gives ages and duration
> ranges rather than country-specific level names.
>
> We think inline translator’s notes should be avoided as much as possible,
> and only added when they are strictly necessary to correctly understand
> the meaning of the text in the targeted language and regions.
>
> We are currently exploring how this other type of useful information could
> be made available to the readers in another form (for example, in a
> separate document). We plan to address this issue by June, and will keep
> you informed. For this publication however, we prefer that you remove these
> additions from the translation.
>
> Best,
>
> Rémi.
>
> [1] https://www.w3c.br/traducoes/wcag/wcag22-pt-BR/#dfn-captions
>
> From: Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br> <reinaldo@nic.br>
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 09:27:43 -0300
> To: xueyuan <xueyuan@w3.org> <xueyuan@w3.org>
> Cc: "group-wai-translations@w3.org" <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
> <group-wai-translations@w3.org> <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
> Message-ID: <c3ba7b2c-dfdc-49ce-9cf4-ed50738576b0@nic.br>
> <c3ba7b2c-dfdc-49ce-9cf4-ed50738576b0@nic.br>
> Hi Xueyuan,
>
> (a) The reviewers and stakeholders suggested this change because in
> Portuguese, "captions" and "subtitles" both have a literal translation
> as  "legendas", but there is a important difference. Considering the
> WAI  definition[1]:
>
> "Captions are a text version of the speech and non-speech audio
> information needed to understand the content. They are displayed within
> the media player and are synchronized with the audio."
>
> In Portuguese, we consider "legendas descritivas" to be the same
> definition as a caption. We should make clear that is not a dialog only
> "legenda" (subtitle). Here is an example translated from the Federal
> University of São Paulo [2]
>
>   "(legenda descritiva) include non-verbal information, that is, in
> addition to dialogue, they contain sound effects, ambient sounds and
> other information that could not be perceived or understood by people
> with hearing impairments."
>
> The reviewer's and stakeholders' concerns are that using only "legendas"
> for "caption" causes people to misunderstand and use them as subtitles
> instead of captions.
>
>
> (b) No problem to add this sentence in a "translator note:".
>
> Best regards
>
>
> Reinaldo
>
>
> From: xueyuan <xueyuan@w3.org> <xueyuan@w3.org>
> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2024 16:50:27 +0800
> To: Reinaldo Ferraz <reinaldo@nic.br> <reinaldo@nic.br>
> Cc: "group-wai-translations@w3.org" <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
> <group-wai-translations@w3.org> <group-wai-translations@w3.org>
> Message-ID: <e41a4fc1-1d9e-4510-8270-ebff85a169c8@w3.org>
> <e41a4fc1-1d9e-4510-8270-ebff85a169c8@w3.org>
> Hi Reinaldo,
>
> Thanks for your prompt response.
>
> Following the review summary you sent [1] and the detailed explanation
> [2], I am relaying the feedback from our WAI colleagues as follows:
>
> (a) Changing CS 1.2.2 "legendas" to "legendas descritivas" for "captions"
>
> [feedback] The English original only uses “Captions”’ and gives more
> details in the glossary definition. We would like to know more about the
> rationale for this change, to make sure that specifying “legendas
> descritivas” does not alter the initial intention.
>
> Could you please clarify the rationale for the change above?
>
> (b) We added the sentence "para esta tradução, a comparação com o
> cenário brasileiro foi obtida pela BNCC" that means "for this
> translation, the comparison with the Brazilian context was obtained
> through the BNCC" to both notes about the education level in the glossary.
>
> [feedback] Those additions are useful to the readers, but it would be
> better to display them in specific “translator note:” boxes.
>
> Our team is currently discussing the translator's note policy. We will
> keep you updated.
>
> Best,
> Xueyuan
>
> [1]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-translators/2024OctDec/0011.html
> [2]
>
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Group/group-wai-translations/2024Nov/0027.html
>
>