- From: Michiel Bijl (list) <michiel.list@moiety.me>
- Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:00:45 +0000
- To: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <77694951-10F5-4352-9E9A-6DAD96B18105@moiety.me>
Minutes for today’s meeting can be found as text in this e-mail or at this URL: https://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html — Michiel [1]W3C [1] http://www.w3.org/ - DRAFT - Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference 16 Feb 2017 [2]Agenda [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0033.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-irc Attendees Present scribe, Stefan, Joanmarie_Diggs, janina, MichaelC, Joseph_Scheuhammer, ShaneM, jongund1 Regrets Chair Joanmarie_Diggs Scribe MichielBijl Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]Testable statements - More tests in need of writing than we realized! 2. [6]ATTA progress updates 3. [7]Getting started on manual testing 4. [8]TPAC 5. [9]CSUN * [10]Summary of Action Items * [11]Summary of Resolutions __________________________________________________________ <joanie> agenda: this <joanie> agenda: be done <scribe> scribe: MichielBijl <joanie> Testable statements assessment: [12]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00 34.html [12] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html <joanie> [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00 27.html [13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0027.html JD: that’s a link where he replied to my request list of items literally doing a diff from the spec <joanie> [14]https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Test_Case_Coverag e [14] https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Test_Case_Coverage This is the list that Michael Cooper compiled JD: Start putting placeholders for all of the items <joanie> [15]https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements [15] https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements Rather than another wiki page I’ve redone the Testable Statements page I think we had 5 areas left I think Rich asked Stefan to do them At no point did Rich say that there would be a ±170 <joanie> [16]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00 34.html [16] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html That has some assumptions <joanie> 1. For new, *non-global* properties: We need a test for each role that <joanie> supports that new property. <joanie> Rationale: We cannot assume that user agents use our taxonomy <joanie> programmatically in their implementations. Thus for non-global <joanie> properties, there's an excellent chance that we won't get the <joanie> implementation "for free"; instead, user agents will likely have <joanie> to add new support on a per-role basis. <clown> +1 Joseph: Only see ?? for button Do we only test button? JD: That’s the next point we’ll get to. Have only talked about non-global properties I’m beyond curious and hope that people can prove me wrong on point one? <joanie> 2. For new, *global* properties: We just need to test one representative <joanie> role, plus any role for which there is special/custom behavior <joanie> related to that property. <joanie> Rationale: Global properties without role-specific special/custom <joanie> behavior is something we *can* assume user agents will not be <joanie> implementing on a per-role basis. Thus because the implementation <joanie> itself is likely to be global, exhaustive testing is not needed. <joanie> Hurray! JD: Example - on my platform, GTK, is like a widget toolkit, we have placeholders, we have a mapping for it Gecko never implemented that It exposes an object attribute <clown> [17]https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#a riaPlaceholder [17] https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder In role description what the spec says it’s supported on everything It can’t be whitespace only, can’t be an empty string, and can only be applied to an explicit or implicit role Joseph: Shouldn’t we have examples where this is not as clear Like role=application JD: As long as it’s a role and the role description is valid We could test like very last role But I think that wouldn’t be worth all the trouble Joseph: Is there a number of things that we’re missing? <joanie> 3. For new roles: We just need to test non-global properties supported <joanie> on those roles: <joanie> Rationale: See rationales 1 and 2 above. JD: We just need to test non-global properties supported on those roles If it’s a global property on a role we get it for free If it’s a non-global property we need to test it <joanie> [18]https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements [18] https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements Link to testable statements ⤴ JD: Priority number 1 is we need volunteers Please, please, volunteer for as many test as you can And fill in your name at the test So we don’t get duplications Some tests have “has questions” Sometimes it boils down to “do we need to test this” <joanie> In ARIA 1.1, aria-controls went from a supported to a required attribute for combobox. <joanie> QUESTION: Is this really testable? There is no implicit value. The property was supported on combobox in 1.0, so we do not need to test that. There is nothing in the ARIA spec regarding what user agents need to do if the author fails to provide a value. JD: Joseph, can I ask you to go through the has questions? And delete if it cannot be test? Or update it if it can be tested It’s really only 24 (if you don’t count the duplications) MC: If “non-testable” is related to something in the spec wouldn’t that be a spec issue JD: *points to question earlier* The difference is between “this is supported” and “author must” You can’t test that <joanie> figure (HAS QUESTION) <joanie> The figure role was added in ARIA 1.1 <joanie> QUESTION: The figure role has no non-global ARIA attributes. It is Joanie's assumption that global attributes do NOT also need to be tested for figure because presumably the user agent implementation of global attributes is not done on a per-role basis. If this is correct, only the role-mapping test below is needed. JD: We have a 170 tests, but that is based of the three assumptions that we’re going through in this call <ShaneM> we definitely do not need to test every last global attribute on every element... JD: Are you suggesting that we leave the questions? Can you do one so I know what you mean? Are you saying we need to test all global attr? Stefan: no JD: Are you suggesting we document it elsewhere Stefan: yes, that would be better JD: Do you agree that given the consensus that it’s okay for Joseph to remove the question Stefan: he can do what he want JD: if the group consensus is that we need to test all the things We should JS: If it had global attributes we just tested the role mapping JD: Are you willing to eliminate the has questions? JS: Yes MC: I do not believe we ever wrote ?? down If we did it’s buried in a wiki somewhere JS: We can put it at the top of this new page <joanie> [19]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/00 34.html [19] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0034.html Reminder: volunteers to please sign-up at the wiki <Stefan> :) <jongund1> can you hear me? JD: Stefan can I ask you to edit the wiki, and add your name to everything that you’re going to test for Stefan: yeah, but not today, will do later JD: A lot of my writing had you in mind ... Anyone else who can volunteer JG: I don’t have anymore bandwidth Working on ATTA for MSAA and IA2 If we do start manual testing I do have two additional people that can help with that One is a mac user JD: Any given testable statement singular has multiple assertions Testable statements - More tests in need of writing than we realized! ATTA progress updates JD: Microsoft had indicated that they could provided manual testers But won’t be doing an ATTA But the test cases were hardcoded in It does not in any way reflect the shared API MS had indicated that they could convert their new testing to ATTA They kept not doing it And a couple weeks ago they said they wouldn’t do it What I wound up doing is I replied to ?? and ?? Boiled down to “thank you, we’ll take you up on your generous offer of the manual testers” But would be awesome if you could provide an ATTA for your platform I’m starting to figure out how to drill down into the a11y tree on mac JG: One of my students has ?? working We can now respond to PRs and get PRs JD: Appreciated! Getting started on manual testing JD: Started writing documentation for manual testing, not done yet Might also need a version for people supporting volunteers If you have people that can test, manually, whose attention to detail is high, we want them! JD: Any questions *crickets* TPAC CSUN It’s not next week but the week after right? <jongund1> I will be at CSUN JS: Right <jongund1> I will probably not be available while I am at CSUN JD: We’re meeting next week, and plan to have a meeting on March 2nd If we don’t have enough people on the call we’ll cancel Please please please please please please please start writing testable statements Summary of Action Items Summary of Resolutions [End of minutes] __________________________________________________________ Minutes formatted by David Booth's [20]scribe.perl version 1.148 ([21]CVS log) $Date: 2017/02/16 18:59:41 $ __________________________________________________________ [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm [21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/ Scribe.perl diagnostic output [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.] This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at [22]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ scribe/ [22] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/joanie/JD/ Succeeded: s/he/Michael Cooper/ Succeeded: s/iterally doing a ?? from the spec/iterally doing a diff fro m the spec/ Succeeded: s/??/can only be applied to an explicit role/ Succeeded: s/explicit/explicit or implicit/ Succeeded: s/roledescription/role description/ Succeeded: s/SZ/Joseph/g Succeeded: s/the ?? for ??/ATTA for MSAA and IA2/ Succeeded: s/??/assertions/ Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl Present: scribe Stefan Joanmarie_Diggs janina MichaelC Joseph_Scheuhamme r ShaneM jongund1 Agenda: [23]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/003 3.html Found Date: 16 Feb 2017 Guessing minutes URL: [24]http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html People with action items: [23] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0033.html [24] http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-aria-minutes.html WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. [End of [25]scribe.perl diagnostic output] [25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 16 February 2017 19:01:16 UTC