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Re: Confusion with spec name for "Accessible Name Computation"

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 14:29:35 -0500
Cc: ARIA Working Group <public-aria@w3.org>
Message-Id: <32FE637B-6646-4139-BB49-0EB51E7B9200@gmail.com>
To: James Craig <jcraig@apple.com>
I know what you are asking. Although you call it baggage a lot of people working with ARIA have become accustomed to the concept of a name and a description. So, now we are going to confuse those people by switching to a label. 

Names are computed from a number of things (some of which are labels, others are alt text, and also a title which is a tooltip. 

What is more every role states if its accessible name is required, how it is computed. Also all short names for the document would need to be changed: Accessible Name and Description specification [ACCNAME-AAM <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#bib-ACCNAME-AAM>].

We are going to have to re-educate people on the concept that is used throughout the spec. 

It also impacts the SVG-AAM: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd <https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd>

And Important terms: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/terms <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/terms>

And existing guidance from accessibility professionals: (e.g.) http://fae20.cita.illinois.edu/rule/sc/FRAME_2/ <http://fae20.cita.illinois.edu/rule/sc/FRAME_2/>

My point being is we are a month away from lock down and are people really willing to risk all this collateral damage because of a few private conversations. 

This is my concern. 

Rich





> On May 13, 2016, at 1:07 PM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 12, 2016, at 12:56 PM, Rich Schwerdtfeger <richschwer@gmail.com <mailto:richschwer@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> We can discuss. This impact the SVG AAM as well. On Windows systems name is the appropriate term and it was first introduced in 1995.
> 
> Right, but the reason we chose "label" in ARIA was because:
> - it more closely matched the HTML convention <label>
> - it did not include the baggage of the platform-specific API "name" which means something different in HTML and on other OS Accessibility APIs
> 
>> I would need to reeducate a lot of people at IBM too. 
> 
> I'm asking for a prose-only change to match the ARIA spec "label"... There is no web code associated with "accessible name" so you should not have to re-educate anyone.
> 
>> Can you give us a link to where you found the concerns?
> 
> There's no link, but there have been emails and private conversations with people from both authors and implementers from a few different companies. The feedback could be summarized as, "ARIA uses 'label' but this other spec uses 'name'. What's the difference. Are they the same? If not, how do they differ?" 
> 
> Since "accessible name" and "accessible label" are the same, we should standardize the language to avoid further confusion.
> 
> Thanks,
> James
> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 12, 2016, at 2:31 PM, James Craig <jcraig@apple.com <mailto:jcraig@apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've heard some confusion recently that the spec name for "Accessible Name Computation" does not match the property usage ("aria-label", "aria-labelledby", HTML <label>, etc.) The concern is that "name" means different things in some accessibility APIs and @name means something else entirely in HTML.
>>> 
>>> Will you consider changing the spec title to one of the following:
>>> 
>>> - "Accessible Label Computation" 
>>> - "Text Alternative Computation"
>>> 
>>> Or another spec title that doesn't have associated baggage of "Name."
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> James Craig
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 


Received on Friday, 13 May 2016 19:30:06 UTC

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